GFCI's

Did you miss the point where I said I replaced the breaker? TWO bad breakers? But the other three located within inches in the panel are all OK? Swap one of those in for the bad circuit (wanna bet that would be a wasted effort??)

Reply to
Don Y
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I just had basically agreed with that assessment...as said, hadn't seen that diagnostic result previously.

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Precisely; since you later say you have other extension cords I suggest swapping it out on the same breaker next before doing anything more involved.

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Any of that starts to seem pretty far-fetched to me albeit almost anything is possible. OH, just a really far-out thought--you don't have any of the "crazy ants" there, do you? They can cause all kinds of really bizzaro thingos/symptoms if they've found a receptacle box and set up shop...

Reply to
dpb

The fact that this is just a MODEST load suggests the problem has to be noticeable. If I was pulling 2200W, I could imagine some merit to downsizing the load to 2000W -- or even 1000W! But, at 675W, my microwave oven draws that! My *hairdryer* draws more than that!

You do know that incandescent bulbs can pull about

10x the current on turn on?
Reply to
makolber

Yes. And you'll note that when we were pulling 2000W in previous years, THE BREAKER NEVER TRIPPED!

(We've been growing oranges for 15+ years)

Reply to
Don Y

How much cord do you have out there and is it still on that spool?

I would keep eliminating the various components in this circuit until you get to what the problem is.

Reply to
gfretwell

It could still be a problem with the strings of lights; they have all seen roughly the same sort of use, over the years. Something that happens to one lamp in one string could also have happened to another lamp in another string, etc. With 25 lamps in each string -- plus a plug on one end and an outlet on the other, that's ~80 places a problem could infest!

Too late to do anything more, today. I'll just turn the lights on and deal with it, again, tomorrow (if I have spare time).

We have "leaf cutter wasps (bees?)" that fill little holes with rolled up pieces of leaves that they use to make their nests.

Other wasps (?) look for little holes to fill with *mud* nests.

And, of course, various little spiders, etc.

It seems like the size of the safety ground hole in an outlet is what they target. E.g., I have found that if I leave 1/4" irrigation tuning on the table in the back porch, when I later go to use it, one (or both!) ends will be neatly plugged with mud.

That's why I think removing the receptacles (starting with those that aren't currently powering loads) is a quick first step. Easier than messing around in the panel (I can turn off the breaker and work on the receptacles without fear of catching a jolt).

Reply to
Don Y

The same amount that has been out there and on the spool for the last ~decade. I can swap to another spool. I can unwind it all. But, none of those seem like reliable alternatives (do I then start considering trimming the length of the cord, etc.?)

Well, that's sort of obvious! :> The trick is figuring it out before trying the last possible option!

Reply to
Don Y

What brand panel and breaker?

Reply to
clare

Not aluminum, by chance??

Reply to
clare

Get a spare non-gfi breaker. Pop it into the panel in place of the GFCI and see what happens.

Reply to
clare

I think you can pretty definitevly rule out tripping from the load of the lights - cold surge or not. How old are the light strings? Or the extension cords?

My strong suspicion is you have electrical leagage somewhere - the lights are shorting to ground (very high resistance), the cord is leaking to ground (very high resistance) or you have a leakage somewhere in the house wiring/outlets.

Reply to
clare

Have to open the "main" side in order to run the neutral leg for that branch circuit over to the "neutrals" tie point.

Nothing is ever "easy"...

Reply to
Don Y

God, no!

Reply to
Don Y

Old CH.

Reply to
Don Y

The strings are varying ages. It's not like we made note of when we got each set. Cords are probably 10 years old. They stay indoors except for this time of year.

Lights can't short to "ground" cuz they're only two wire devices (tree isn't a very good conductor when you consider the wires tend to lay on leaves)

Possible as its a 3 conductor extension.

Also possible. However, I don't consider any of those to be LIKELY!

I.e., why would it "leak" then NOT leak a second later (when power applied from the breaker).

And, when *hot*, not leak for 8 hours of continuous use; not leak after being disconnected for 1 second; not leak after being disconnected for 10 seconds; then "leak" when disconnected for 2 minutes??

I.e., what -- other than the temperature/resistance of the tungsten filaments -- is going to exhibit changes on the order of "many seconds" (something greater than 10 and less than 120)?

I wish I still had my Hi-Pot tester! :<

Reply to
Don Y

breakers are designed to get more sensitive as they age. to prevent fires..

I spent at least 15 years repairing machines in the westinghouse vanport in beaver pa breaker plant. aa truly fascinatining place

Reply to
bob haller

thats what main breakers are designed for, changing breakers in a hot panel is just plain dumb...

of course you have to reset clocks etc......

but you have to do that if your home has a power failure

Reply to
bob haller

Every panel I've ever been in makes it relatively easy to change a breaker with power on. The breakers typically clip into/onto one bus bar or the other (or both) so the "live" circuit is not anywhere near where you are working. Only a section of the bus bar(s) that you will be connecting to is exposed BETWEEN the other installed breakers. In our case, that means a slot

5/8" wide and 2+ inches deep to touch the bus bar.

The hot wire running off to the branch circuit can be connected

*before* installing a breaker or disconnected *after* the breaker is pulled out.

By contrast, the GFCI's require a connection to the neutral bus. In our panel, that means exposing the AC line *at* the main breaker. Turning off the breaker gives you very little added protection -- slip and you're toast.

Generational differences? :> Sure, we'd have to reset a couple of bedroom clocks, HiFi's, oven, microwave, etc. And, coordinate our activities so we're not without power when we're expecting to do something (make dinner, watch a movie, etc.)

But, that's pretty easy.

The real effort comes with the computers that are undoubtedly running at the time of the "planned outage".

I'd have to make notes as to what I was doing on each of the computers that were powered up, at the time (assuming they aren't actively "doing something" that will take a fair amount of time -- like rendering a 3D model, "make world", etc.); examine each open application so I can return to that state when power is eventually restored.

(I typically leave a machine exactly where it was when I was last using it so the display reminds me as to what I was doing)

Also, shut down any network appliances or headless servers in an orderly manner. etc.

Or, hope the batteries in each UPS are stiff enough to carry the loads for the time you *expect* to need to swap out the breaker.

I.e., I have to do a fair bit of planning if I want to remove power for anything more than a few seconds (which I expect the UPS's to always handle even when batteries are toast).

I have no control over a power failure. I *do* have control over when -- and IF -- I remove power to do electrical maintenance!

Reply to
Don Y

Let's say you have a leakage of 4 mA and the GFCI is designed to trip at a leakage of 3 to 5 mA. At 4 mA, it may or may not trip. For whatever reason, when first turned on, its trip point is 3 mA (within spec) but it then rises to nearer 5 mA (still within spec). Wouldn't that explain what you are seeing? I made up those numbers, but you get the idea. Look for a small leakage of current from hot to ground (or a low resistance connection from neutral to ground) that is on the hairy edge of tripping the GFCI. As others have said, water or bugs in one of the boxes on the line is the most likely. A neutral to ground short in one of the boxes is also possible. Good luck. These things are not easy to find.

Pat

Reply to
Pat

You do know that having 700W of incandescents on even a 15A circuit is very common and doesn't cause breakers tripping?

Reply to
trader_4

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