Gas water heater, tank vs tankless

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Can I get some opinions on which way to go here? Home is 3 1/2 baths, 4 occupants (so max of two showers running @ once)
tank water heater would need to be power vented, so 50gal is in the $900 range, tankless could be moved to where water main enteres the house, so direct vent would be the way to go which puts it just a little more ($1k to $1,200). What size gas line do the extra btu's of a tankless model require? the line from outside is about 60', mostly straight.
Information, experience, (especially with specific brands with the tankless) positives and negatives are all welcome. I know I'm going with gas, but I'm just not sure which type of water heater to get.
tia,
jc
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    * Well initial cost is more     * Operating expense is less     * Lifetime expense should be less     * Some inconvenience     * Possible reduced resale value. People tend not to like something they are not familiar with when buying a home.
So for me, it would be a matter of the trade off of reduced life cost vs possible inconvenience. In my household there is little chance for the inconvenience so it should be a go. But when it comes time for a replacement of my water heater, I am going to guess I will pick a standard model. Not logical, but I am just not all that sure of them.
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Joe wrote:

"... tankless could be moved to where the water main enters the house..."
Huh?
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The tank electric water heater I'm replacing is larger than any tankless model, therefore, if I go that route (tank), I would want to keep it where it currently sits next to the furnace (which is on an interior basement wall), because I can enclose both in a mechanicals closet. This placement situation is what would lead to my needing a powervent ($$) model *if* I decide to go with the gas tank model. *If* I go tankless, the space requirement would not be as great, and I could easily move it against an exterior basement wall (next to the main) which would cause more effort in plumbing from the tankless to where the existing hwh pipes are, but would save me money during installation because venting would be cheaper. The double-walled stainless steel vent pipes for tankless models are *not* cheap.
sorry I wasn't clearer 1st time around.
jc
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electric tankless for large family? live where it gets cold in winter?
just figure on a MAJOR elecrical upgrade 200AMPS just to heat water, plus 200 amps for your existing service.......
the electrical upgrade will cost thousands
all the bwater heated MUST be heated instaneously, that takes a lot of current.
since electrical water heating is 100% efficent less just minimal tank standby losses you will never save any money.;
had a friend price a electrical tankless 5 grand for install.
the vent line is a minor issue...
your power company should be asked they may need to upgrade lines and or transformer in your area....
were you trying to save energy / money or desiring unlimited hot water?
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I thought he said Ng, Tankless electric 4 people 3.5 bath might be 2 Bosch electric tankless and need 240a and cost like you said 5000. The electric co would love you.
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electric tankless for large family? live where it gets cold in winter?
nooo, i'm replacing an *electric* hwh with either a gas tank hwh *or* a gas tankless hwh.
just figure on a MAJOR elecrical upgrade 200AMPS just to heat water, plus 200 amps for your existing service.......
the electrical upgrade will cost thousands
all the bwater heated MUST be heated instaneously, that takes a lot of current.
since electrical water heating is 100% efficent less just minimal tank standby losses you will never save any money.;
had a friend price a electrical tankless 5 grand for install.
the vent line is a minor issue...
your power company should be asked they may need to upgrade lines and or transformer in your area....
were you trying to save energy / money or desiring unlimited hot water?
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

HE SAID he wanted to use GAS....
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rereading your post so you heat water with electric? and are thinking of converting to natural gas? first get yur chimney inspected.
gas tankless have a myriad of downsides. the forced vent tankless mean no hot water if electric fails, none in tank since theres no tank. electric needed to run power vent
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rereading your post so you heat water with electric? and are thinking of converting to natural gas? first get yur chimney inspected.
gas tankless have a myriad of downsides. the forced vent tankless mean no hot water if electric fails, none in tank since theres no tank. electric needed to run power vent
I didn't say it would be forced tankless. it would be direct tankless, or power vent tank. I understand that if the power went out with a powervent tank, i wouldn't have hw beyond what was in the tank, but if power is out long enough to allow the water to cool down, i've other problems. Plus, i probably won't be taking a shower in the dark, so i'm considering that point moot.
thanks,
jc
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Joe wrote:

HE SAID he was going powervent out the side through pvc.
GD! do ANY of you people actually READ the original messages??
s
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lmao Steve, I was beginning to wonder the same thing.
jc
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That's why that score called "Reading Comprehension" is generally so low for American school kids. They might be able to READ but they can't understand what they have read!
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I have two on demand gas water heaters that are located in seasonal rental properties. Under this conditionn where use is somewhat sporatic they worked well. When I was renting a house to an elderly couple they had no problems with it . When the same house was rented out to a family of 5 They never had enough hot water and I had to install a 50 gal propane water heater. The house was 3 b3droom 3.5 bathes. Their biggest complaint was that two people couldnt shower at the same time and ding laundry caused a problem Its my understanding that when the manufacturers wrote up their comparisons on the on demand heaters that they compared them to the most poorly insulated inefficent tanked units they could find and compared US style baths ( 20 minutes) to Japanese style baths(3 min).
HAve you seen the installation cost on these things. When I installed mine I was replcing gas and it wasnt to bad. If you are replacing electtric the only person benifiting frrom it is the installer. The savings will pay for the installation just about the time it has to be replaced. JMO
Jimmie
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I would get a tank unless you are really pressed for space. The tankless are more expensive and I don't see any long-term energy savings. A teen counts as two people using hot water.
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I have tankless and am happy. But with tankless savings drop way off on multiple continous users, maybe you save 5%, but you will need the biggest most expensive 200,000 btu unit for 4. That means a big gas pipe. You would first need your line tested to see if it will give you the flow you need. In winter when all gas apliances in your house are on and pressure is lower you might have to do extra work to get that extra 200,000 btu you will need for colder winter water. AO Smith Vertex is maybe one of the most efficent Tanks of about 83 EF. For single-2 people use, vacation homes tankless are great but with 4 you need to research it and would possibly not like the drawbacks. A big tankless might cost alot for the gas line needed. A condensing Vertex is as efficent as most tankless at 82-83 E.F. I think, Its High recovery but it costs $
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wrote:

I have tankless and am happy. But with tankless savings drop way off on multiple continous users, maybe you save 5%, but you will need the biggest most expensive 200,000 btu unit for 4. That means a big gas pipe. You would first need your line tested to see if it will give you the flow you need. In winter when all gas apliances in your house are on and pressure is lower you might have to do extra work to get that extra 200,000 btu you will need for colder winter water. AO Smith Vertex is maybe one of the most efficent Tanks of about 83 EF. For single-2 people use, vacation homes tankless are great but with 4 you need to research it and would possibly not like the drawbacks. A big tankless might cost alot for the gas line needed. A condensing Vertex is as efficent as most tankless at 82-83 E.F. I think, Its High recovery but it costs $ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, I just bought one. Haven't installed it yet as I need to do some plumbing rearranging due to a bathroom remodel above where it will go. Specs are great. Will have to upgrade the gas line from the 1/2 inch the old water heater uses to 3/4 inch because the tank has 100,000 BTU input.
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Only 100,000 input, what brand , my 117000 input Bosch I thought was the smallest and it wont do 2 showers at once unless ground water temp stays near 70f. Ng Pipe size is dependant on length and testing. I needed 3/4 at maybe 10 ft. One inch is possibly needed on a long run. When my furnace kicks on I measure a maybe 1-3 degree drop in temp. You must test and figure in low winter pressures.
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wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 100,000 input, what brand , my 117000 input Bosch I thought was the smallest and it wont do 2 showers at once unless ground water temp stays near 70f. Ng Pipe size is dependant on length and testing. I needed 3/4 at maybe 10 ft. One inch is possibly needed on a long run. When my furnace kicks on I measure a maybe 1-3 degree drop in temp. You must test and figure in low winter pressures. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you talking tankless or tank water heaters.
I just purchased an A.O. Smith "Vertex" tank water heater. They come in two models, the economy GPHE-50 at 76,000 BTU and the one that I have is the GDHE-50 at 100,000 BTU input to replace my old rental at 36,000 BTU. They claim that it can deliver 164 gallons of hot water per hour at a 90 degree temperature raise. It won't need to come close to that to satisfy my needs.
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-------------------
Oh Tank I thought you meant tankless, I have an AO Cyclone tank condensing unit in an apt, no issues for 12 years. Does the Vertex have a clean out panel on the water tank. Mine need the muffler its so loud. The Vertex is tops.
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