Garage door opener question

[Mike Dobony]

All 1/2 hp units.

You can get more powerful consumer grade openers.

3/4 hp, but it still comes with a stupid chain/cable combo. I want a full chain or the Chaimberlain lifetime belt.

How much does

Heavy duty aluminum skin inside and out and insulated. It is a standard

7x16 door from a garage door company, not el-cheapo from the home improvement center.

When the pros came over they never said anything about the opener.

Chain/cable combo, screw drive, and then the Idrive. Forget what the 4th was somewhere in the middle. I have been having problems for 15 years. The Idrive is only a few years old.

If so I would

My father had a full wood double door and had either a 1/4 or 1/3 hp opener built around the 60's and it never failed other than needing a new belt-drive (from motor to gear box) and a few new remotes. That was an EXTREMELY heavy door. When I was 5 I could open it manually. The spring is supposed to do all the work and negates the weight of the door. That is what it is designed to do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD be able to open any properly setup door.

[Joseph Meehan]

Mike Dobony wrote: ..

Maybe not. Remember inertia from your high-school physics class? The tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest or of a body in motion to stay in motion in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force.

Overall I still tend to believe that something has been missed. I have had 4 consumer garage doors over the last 30 years (two at a time) and I have yet to have any of them fail. BTW for the last 15 years they have been on insulated aluminum doors.

Go ahead and put in a more expensive opener, but I suspect you will either accidentally correct the problem, or you are going to find the same thing happening.

Maybe we have forgotten on thing. Cycling! How often are theses doors used every day. The real difference with commercial doors is that they are designed for many more lifetime cycles and heavier doors.

[Mike Dobony]

Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The spring overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from having to deal with the full weight and inerta of the door.

But this time if there is still a problem I will not be dealing with the problem. A call to the installer will have HIM dealing with it. For this reason I am temtped to go to the Allstar due to the 20 year waranty on the entire drive train, not just motor and conveyor chain.

Used 6-8 times a day. 2 cars each being used twice a day except on very rare occasions when it might be use an additional time or 2.

[Duane Bozarth]

...

Yes. ...

[Joseph Meehan]

Well it means it does not have to deal with the full weight of the door, but the inertia is still a possible problem. From your description of the door, I doubt if it is any heavier than the norm and well within the expected weight for a consumer door opener.

That does not sound like a bad idea. Just make sure you read the warranty well before you buy. :-)

At least then, you have have someone who is going to be responsible for finding and fixing the problem without being able to walk away without fixing it.

That also sounds within reason.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

[Duane Bozarth]

...

It'll divide w/ the relative weight carried by the spring as well...as far as the motor knows, the door only weighs as much as the weight not carried by the springs in the fully closed position.

[Joseph Meehan]

No I am sorry but the inertia is not reduced at all by springs. The springs can carry the weight of the door, but it does not change the mass of the door and it is the mass that the problem I was talking about.

However as I said, based on your description of the door, it would seem to be within the norms for a consumer door and should not be a problem.

[Mike Dobony]

To be more precise I am looking at a *different* pro that I just found on the Chamberlain site. I never new about this installer.

I have never seen the 2' test. Yes, it drops like a rock and is barely able to be opened wiht 1 hand.

This came from the installer who replaced the broken springs.

The size of the spring is

Yup. Having the new pro come out. I described the problme at 2' and he believe it needs new, larger springs. I am also putting my old Chamberlain screw drive back up for him to test it out. Taking the Idrive off. If this still doesn't work I am going with the new contractor grade opener.

[Mike Dobony]

Traditional openers: It will open part way and stop with an error (blinking light). It will close part way and reverse with an error (blinking light).

The Idrive closes all the way and then opens again.

[Duane Bozarth]

....

At half open, roughly half the weight is being held on the horizontal tracks so isn't part of the equation any longer...

...

Then the springs aren't big enough by whatever is needed to make it so that isn't so...

Probably what that _really_ means is they were the largest he had in the truck at the time...

There had to have been springs for it originally that were sufficiently stout...

...

[Rich256]

I would say that very definitely the door needs work and not the opener. I had a slab door with similar weight. I went to heavier springs and couldn't keep it closed. This was a type that used expansion type springs. I replaced one big spring with two smaller ones that totaled out to be stronger. I had to do a bunch adjustments to the mechanism to get it balanced. Once that was done I could open the door with one finger.

[Joseph Meehan]

BINGO! I think you found the problem.

[Rich]

You stated the door drops from 2' and balances at 4' - 5'. What doe it do when it is at the 7' mark? Does it hang into the opening or is it hard to pull down? If it is heavy at the floor, balances midway and is hard to pull down when it is full open the torsion springs are too long. You simply have to shorten to the correct length for your application.

If it is heavy at the floor and balances midway with extension springs then the door is under sprung.

Get an exact door weight by removing all the tension from springs and with the help of some friends lower that door onto a scale. Once you get the proper weight, purchase the correct springs for your door. Any door regardless of the material it's made of or it's size should not be heavy at all to lift by hand.

If your "pro" is just guessing at the weight then you should seek another that will go through the process of obtaining the EXACT weight of your door and springing accordingly. Properly done your door should be able to be opened and closed with minimal effort and no stress/overload on your electric opener.

Rich

[Mike Dobony]

"Rich" when it is at the 7' mark? Does it hang into the opening or is it hard to

I will NEVER put an extention spring on a door. I have torsion springs. It is fine at 7'.

I have tried to set up the torsion springs or extention springs. It is NOT something I am capable of doing myself.

I have a different pro coming in to look at it Monday. Unfortunately, it is supposed to be a very warm day. The problem happens at or near freezing and below. I agree that a properly set up door should be well within the capability of even the smallest motored opener. It sure took enough time and responses to get a proper, full test of my door. I put my screw drive back on and it works fine. It is also 50 degrees out, not in the trouble temps.

[doordoc]

I described the problem at 2' and he believe it needs new, larger springs.

Actually if they are using the same wire size & diameter spring the newer spring would need to be shorter then the ones you have now for them to have more lifting power w/ the proper amount of turns. Once again it all depends on the weight of the door & the size of the drums.

Since you have a 16x7 it most likely has 4" drums, so you take the full weight of the door w/ no tension & multiply it by .29 (that's point 29) to get the IPPT (inch pounds per turn) of the springs. If there is 2 springs you divide the calculated weight by two & then look on a chart to find springs w/ that IPPT & make sure that the springs are rated for at least 10,000 cycles w/ 7-1/2 turns on them. (Most of our guys in Florida weigh the door & then call in to the office to have someone use a software program to calculate the proper springs). If it's done right you should be able to easily lift the door off the floor & to the full open position w/ one hand.

I'm not a big fan of DYI openers either, but if everyone had to use 5 different openers in 15 years (new one every 3 years on average) I don't think anyone would continue to buy them & the stores wouldn't carry them. They may not be the very best in my opinion, but they should last alot more then 3 years.

Good luck in getting your door fixed properly!!! Unfortunately as you have found out there are alot of people in this type of business that don't have a clue how the doors are really suppose to work.

Doordoc

[Mike Dobony]

This makes sense as each coil carries more weight at full rotation (down ) and stops working at full open.

How does the cold affect this rating? It opens and closes fine above about

40 degrees, but starts making trouble below that temp.

[doordoc]

The cold shouldn't affect the spring rating much at all.I believe the door has been heavy off of the floor for sometime & that the cold tends to thicken grease, etc & cause other frictions which is enough to cause the opener to not work & the additional weight wears the opener parts out pre-maturely.

Doordoc

[Mike Dobony]

Opener parts are fine. It just refuse to open or close fully. The new guy caome over today and only lubricated all the rollers and bearings and even the spring (????), but didn't change the door. It holds open at about 2', but drops like a rock from there. My only other options are to find yet another pro or put another 1/2 wind on the springs. I can't tell how many winds are on the present spring as the painted line is gone on both springs. I guess I could get a few bathroom scales to check the weight of the door and get new springs and try to set it up again myself. Any web sites with info on how to set up a torsion spring properly?

[Roy Starrin]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:46:45 -0600, "Mike Dobony"