Do you think splicing 100' of wire onto a GTO exit wand would work?

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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

No. Soldering is better. The phone company doesn't want to spend the time it takes to solder each connection, up to hundreds a day, and it has a staff to go fix problems when they develop, as well as electronic tools to find the break in a wire, by injecting a signal at one end if necessary.
And if you plan to use the gel connectors they use, that might require practice too to learn to do them right, and maybe also a special pair of pliers. I'm not sure, but I know you've never done it before.

I don't know what "3M™ Armorcast™ Structural Material" is, but it's not for you. You also don't have armored cable.

I've never heard of a kit being designed for a certain number of conductors, unless maybe they're talking about some special way to splice all 3 conductors at the same time. There's no need to do that. For one thing, you'd need some machine costing thousands to solder more than one connection at the same time, and any other kind of connection is inferior. Just solder and tape each connection yourself, one at a time. By offsetting the splices, as I and one of the links you gave suggested, you won't have to wrap insulation around each separate solder joint. Just make sure that neither the soldered area or any of the bared wire is at the same position as any bare portion of any conductor. And make sure there are no sharp points in the solder of any conection. They could pierce the insulation. I think they only result when the solder isn't hot enough, (or maybe when there wasn't enough flux???). At any rate, you probably won't have that, or you can reheat, or cut them off with wire cutters, or wrap them separately with enough layers so it can't pierce through.
Then just wrap the whole thing at one time. If it turns out that two of the uninsulated parts could touch each other, wrap one of them seaparately first.
You're making this too complicated, partly because of what they told you when you first called. You need a soldering iron, solder, and tape, not a kit.
BTW, when some of these sites talk about low voltage, they're talking about 110 volts and 220 volts, as opposed to 10,000 volts, which is high voltage. They're talking about currents in the range of 10 or 20 amps or more. No, much more. Look at the wire gauges they deal with in the link you provide above. 14 to 10AWG, 8-4AWG, 2-1/0, 2-0. 14 gauge will carry 15 amps, 10 gauge will carry at least 25 amps. 8 gauge at least 30 amps (probably more but I don't recall) 2 gauge must carry 100 amps and zero gauge even more. Imagine how big those wires are. That's what these kits are for, not for little wires carrying tiny currents, like a few thousandths of an amp.
You otoh are dealing with much lower voltalge and much lower currents, and much lower maximum currents also. You can't even feel 12 volts and maybe you can barely feel a tingle with 24 volts, but I don't think so.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:26:57 -0500, mm

Hey please stop cross posting this bullshit to SER.
Thanks.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

The trouble is, we don't know which group the OP is reading. We don't know which group gets the "post" and which gets the cross post.
I used to say which group I was posting from when I crosspostd, but no one else seems to think of that.

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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:24:33 -0500, mm

Ok at this point the topic has been run into the ground and all I see is bickering back and forth.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:24:33 -0500, mm wrote:

My fault. I'll just stick with alt.home.repair!

That's a good idea. I'll use it next time.
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On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:40 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

Well I personally think cross posting is a good thing a) when one doesn't know which group is the better or best one.
b) when people on one group could benefit by learning from the other group.
c) lots of other good reasons.
For just one example, a Firefox question to a small netscape/firefox group and a big OS group. Everyone who uses firefox would benefit if the firefox guy knows the answer, but there are a lot more people in the OS group.
Another example is this thread here. I don't know why meatplow objected. I think he reads this group anyhow and not the other one.
One of the big disadvantages of web forums is that there is no way to ask a "multi-disciplinary" question in more than one forum at the same time, or so each will read the others' replies.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

Piss off meathead.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:19:25 -0500, Meat Plow wrote:

The trouble is, we don't know which group the OP is reading. We don't know which group gets the "post" and which gets the cross post.
I used to say which group I was posting from when I crosspostd, but no one else seems to think of that.

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wrote:

Please don't feed meathead the troll. He offers no advice just a total waste of bandwidth trolling for his 15 seconds of fame.
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..snip...

...snip... from PERSONAL experience: DON'T SOLDER LONG TERM CONNECTIONS! ESPECIIALLY OUTDOORS!
Crimp, or constant mechanical pressure is BEST. And DON'T solder a crimp, you will ruin it.
I made the mistake of soldering links in my security system. Now these solder joints were something to be proud of, too. Cleaned wire. Wrapped tightly together at the splice for at least 5 turns. Solder was high quality and not overheated during soldering. Solder shiny and wetting out for at least 1 inch. They lasted 10 years before I got hit with a false alarm. Then a month later another mysterious false alarm. Each time reset alarm system and all connections were good. Then went to every week. Until I went to all my soldered junctions and re-soldered them. Alarm worked for another 10 years, until, repeat.
I never had to re-do my crimped connections.
Being an arrogant college graduate, I did not listen to the "lowly" experienced security system installers who told me about crimping is better than soldering. I knew better. I thought they just were lazy, because careful soldering takes time and crimping is fast. I learned a very humbling experience from these experiences.
By the way, a separate alarm system with links running outside the building, the soldered connections lasted only one year before false alarm. So, again, don't solder your connections.
Crimp is best, because you have constant mechanical pressure between the conductors. Solder won't do that, all eases with time.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid (Elmo) writes:
| Do you think I can find a 4-conductor shielded 16 AWG cable splice kit at | ACE, OSH, or Home Depot? (I'll try later today.)
I doubt it.
Here is the kit I used to splice the cable to a similar vehicle detection wand about 15 years ago. It has worked fine since:
http://www.homecontrols.com/Winland-Vehicle-Alert-Cable-Splice-Kit-WL1082
Note that this was just the first Google hit and you may be able to find it as a Winland product for less. Moreover, Winland probably doesn't actually make it so you might find a generic for even less again.
                Dan Lanciani                 ddl@danlan.*com
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On Feb 1, 10:15 am, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

Add the required number/severity of speed bumps to force the drivers to slow down to whatever speed works for the 50 foot wand.
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On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

I know that when my girlfriend got spliced, it destroyed our magnetic field.
Seriously, I'm a 3 or 4 out of 10 on electronics knowledge, not even a skilled amateur, but this reminds me of "No user-serviceable parts inside". It depends on who the user is. I even saw that on a Black & Decker tire pump, on the plug for the cigarette lighter. I drilled out the rivets, replaced a burned-out fuse, and it's worked fine for 10 years now.
The product you write about seems intended for corporations and rich people. I'll bet it's a way to squeeze another 150 dollars out of you.
(They won't exchange what you bought for the longer one because you buried yours already and it's dirty?)
Oh, yeah, the technician might even believe what he told you even if I'm right.
It would be easier to do a nice splice if you offset the individual splices an inch or so from each other.
To the other people here, any reason he can't use one sheet of alimumim foil to shield everything all at once.
If you're burying it when you're done, silicone tape, I think it's called, is even better than heat-shrink tubing and doesn't slip on, it wraps on. Stretch it to 2 or 3 times its length, then wrap while streched and within a few days it merges into one big probably waterproof blob. Hard to find though.
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On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:31:47 -0500, mm wrote:

I think the technicians have to say what's in the manual: http://www.gtopro.com/PDF/Manuals/GTO-Gate-Opener-Gate-Operator-Manual-pro-wand.pdf
On Page 2 of that PDF installation manual, it says: - The Wand cable CANNOT be spliced. - If you need more wire, contact the GTO Sales Department at 800-543-GATE.
When I called the GTO Sales Department, they said the only solution was to buy a new exit wand with a longer feed. They said all the exit wands are different (contrary to what the technicians told me at the support number).
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On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:31:47 -0500, mm wrote:

I did find 3M silicone tape for splicing cable here http://tinyurl.com/ya5sob2 http://rock.thomasnet.com/item/electronics-cables/3m-82-a-series-waterproof-power-cable-splice-kits/82-a3?&seo 0
So now the problem just is finding the 4-conductor 16AWG shielded cable and the 3M splice kit in a store somewhere around here.
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On Feb 2, 7:34 am, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

You originally said 5 conductor, now you say 4 conductor. ??
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:34:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy wrote:

There are actually 5 connections, but one of them is the shield which I don't think the 3M product handles.
The 5 connections are at the gate control box but only 4 insulated wires are inside the wire. The installation instructions for the exit wand tell you to twist the end of the fifth shield together and wire nut it to the battery.
The 4-conductor plus 1 shield wiring instructions are listed in this PDF. http://www.mightymule.com/PDF/Manuals/FM138-Mighty-Mule-Wired-Exit-Sensor.pdf
In hind sight, I should have gone wireless. That way I could have put the sensor anywhere I like. :(
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:37:48 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

So the wires aren't individually shielded, you're saying?
So now I'm thinking just about any four conductor wire, stranded so it will be sufficiently flexible, will be enough.
16 gauge would be nice, but I wouldnt' be too surprised if it worked with almost any gauge. What say you, techno guys?
Is the shielding foil or woven wires? Oh, it says, braided metal wire. Can't you solder new shielding to that>
Either way, for shielding, can't he just put the splice in some sort of metal tube, a little longer than the splice, connected at one or both ends to the shielding of the cable.
If they say this will work test it before you bury it. Wave the wand over a car, at the right distance, instead of making the car drive over it. Wait a while to see if tv or radio stations make the gate open when no one is there. That doesn't seem very likely to me.
check if someone with a metal wheelbarrow can open the gate, but I woudlnt' be too surprised if that would be true with a totally standard installation . Is there no sensitivity adjustment anywhere?
Yes, there is. It's called potentiometer (pot).
It also says "IMPORTANT: When the SENSOR is first powered up it must be undisturbed for 60 seconds to perform the self test and calibrations."
So, although there is a limit I'm sure to the range of whatever needs to be calibrated, adjusted for, this means there is a range. That's probably why they don't have to make all the cables of different lengths the same.
It also says this:
If the SENSOR is not working: 1. Make sure the Range Adjustment is set at maximum range. 2. Disconnect the power (battery) to the SENSOR. 3. Reconnect the power to the SENSOR and make sure that no metal object or vehicle is moving around the SENSOR for 60 seconds while it is calibrating. 4. Test the SENSOR to verify that it is working properly. 5. Check that push/pull DIP switches on Control Board are set correctly.

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wrote:

I'd be looking for some shielded CAT5 (STP) stranded wire, which shouldwork OK. I've got the cable the OP wants, but I suspect he's a long ways from me!
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:48:43 -0500, PeterD wrote:

Very interesting suggestion!
I didn't know what STP was but it's apparently "Shielded Twisted Pair".
Searching, I can easily find 100 foot lengths of "Cat 5 STP", e.g., http://www.topmicrousa.com/10x6-521hd.html
I like the idea of wiring a female RJ45 connector and just plugging a standard CAT5 STP wire into the RJ45 for convenience (no soldering required).
Apparently CAT5 uses either foil shields or braid and maybe both as alluded to in this url ( http://sewelldirect.com/Cat5e-STP-Bulk-Cable.asp ).
Note: Removed crosspost.
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