**DO NOT TRUST BATH FITTER**


To make a long story short, I signed a contract, had a job done, and when I went to review the job with the on site technician, I noticed that a few pieces of the job were not done. I was assured by my salesman (Eric Rockwood) that this was part of the deal. I was told by the tech, that what I was referring to was NOT part of the contract. I contacted the salesman who of course denied ever telling me this. He made it sound as though my job was not important to him by saying "do you think i would lie for a $2300 job??" and "I'm definitly not hurting for a sale". I spoke with several managers in the company who basically all gave me the same line. "is it in writing anywhere?" "we dont see it on the contract" and then "we can do it, but we need you to sign a form stating that we are not liable for any damage" Gee thanks guys!!! You will do it, but then when you screw it up, i get the bill!!! I refused final payment and got a call from the Vice President of the company, Jerry Snyder this morning. Mr. Snyder was very rude and insisted that his "good christian" salesman would never lie, and that he has trained his sales people himself. He offered the same deal to me "we'll do it, but we are not liable". I told him thanks but no thanks and that word of mouth is a very powerful weapon. Thats how i heard about bath fitter and actually had some friends and family interested in possibly going with them. So, since i am not a crook, unlike Bath Fitters, I will be sending them a check for final payment and will begin my warnings to all here in google groups. This occured 1/2/07.
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I would avoid any chain store repair place. Doesn't matter if it's home improvement or not. AAMCO, Midas, Jiffy Lube, etc are just as bad. And putting a tub liner in instead of replacing the tub, as nature intended, is just plain silly.
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I actually just did a wall fixture. I didnt do the liner over the tub. we only have 1 full bath, and a baby, so we needed something that could be done quickly.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

So what did the contract include? If it wasn't in the contract, it wasn't part of the deal and the time to have cleared it up was when you were negotiating the contract/project scope _and reviewing the terms of the contract before signing_ ...
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Is this the first time you have done business with anyone? Before you signed a contract you should have insisted that all the terms be put on the paper because whatever is in that contract is what you get. Nothing more. Verbal promises and handshakes don't mean a thing in a court of law. You screwed up so own up to it.
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you are right.maybe i did screw up. however, i was told that the particular part of the job was part of another job that WAS on the contract. i was told that all brass in my shower would be replaced with chrome and that this was all part of the faucet replacement. however, the drain and the overflow cap in the tub were not replaced. i was told that since i got a wall and not a tub liner, it was not included.i should have known not to trust a salesperson. after all, thats their job, to sell.
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Skinzfan151 wrote:

Well, actually, those are not a part of the faucet, but are separate items.

That sounds about right to me. If your job includes keeping your desk clean, would you assume the duties of taking out the garbage in the coffee area?
In other words, it sounds like they did what they agreed to do; and perhaps you didn't clarify sufficiently what was included.
Keep notes of any meetings; copy the salesguy back with your notes, and cc his manager next time.
--Yan
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I agree.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

OTOH, an intelligent installer would have pointed out the mis-match, and said, for an extra $___ we can make them all match.
Then again, an intelligent customer would have pointed out the problem, and asked for a resolution, instead of going off on both barrels right off the bat.
--Yan
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CptDondo wrote: Then again, an intelligent customer would have pointed out the problem,

i did ask for a resolution and was told that they would do it, for a price and that they were not liable for damages
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Skinzfan151 wrote:

And, what, precisely, do you see as being wrong with that? You can then accept or reject--that's the way contract negotiations work.
Clearly, the extra touches you were asking for weren't part of the original scope of work so to expect anything more than another bid for them seems unreasonable.
Going back to the beginning, it does seem a really experienced sales rep would suggest the additional work to complete the job and offer it as an option. That would be more in line, actually, with your earlier comment about a salesman's job is to sell -- he would have undoubtedly had a slightly larger commission from the additional scope as well.
As for liability, that should be a negotiable item -- if there's something done that is substandard or causes damage that is unreasonable, there should be a standard clause that covers such. If, otoh, they're simply saying an incidental scratch in a surface from removing an existing drain isn't covered for old work, that is also fairly standard practice.
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dpb wrote:

they said they wouldnt be liable for any surface damage to the tub (not a big deal to me) or any pipe problems that could arise from removing the 40 year old drain (big deal to me)
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Skinzfan151 wrote:

Again, though, that's reasonable. If it's a 40 year old pipe, it may well be corroded and leaking. It may be held together with hair and rust. They discover the leak. Now they're liable - for what? Fixing the pipe? Fixing 30 years of leaking water damage? How far does the corroded pipe go? Whole house? 20'? Should they replace 20' of pipe? 2'? Replumb your house?
It's an existing condition and as such, you as the homeowner assume the risks. No honest contractor would assume responsibility for an unknown condition.
If you don't trust your contractor, get a different one. But you will still assume the risks.
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Yes, you did -- look at what you wrote. That shows just exactly how you screwed up.

I was told...

I was told...

I was told...
See a pattern here? Get it yet?

Nope, you don't get it. You've taken the wrong lesson out of the experience. The right lesson is: get it in writing. If it's not in writing, it doesn't exist.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
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wrote:

I don't understand this sentence at all. If there was another job or another contract, what did it say? The description of the work to be done, start to finish.

I'm having trouble understanding what was done, and what wasn't done. What wall?
Also you've said what you were told. What DOES the contract say? The description of the work to be done, start to finish.

So now you have a mixture of chrome and brass? That doesn't sound good. It also doesn't sounnd like something you would knowingly have agreed to. That might mean there was no meeting of the minds, which voids the contract but leaves you paying whatever the judge thinks the job was worth (though no more than the contract price). quantum meruit.
Is the only problem that those two things are still brass? How much to get new brass for the parts that are now chrome? The old brass will still be scuffed I suppose, but it's a compromise.
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On 4 Jan 2007 06:01:05 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Baloney, although it is almost never in your interest to call anyone a liar. Just say they forgot what they said, or they are mistaken.
I watch a couple tv court shows and see a substantial number of litigants saying "I'm a Christian" when they are plainly at fault, sometimes when they are plainly lying.
And the person who committed the biggest crime anyone has against me, a serious felony, told me she was a Christian.

Whether it has to be itemized in the contract or not depends on what it is. If it is part of doing a workmanlike job, then it is implied by the contract. For an easy example, the chrome collar around the shower pipe that covers the hole must be installed whether specified or not. And, the faucet cannot drip, whether it says that in the contract or not, and one must not need a wrench to tighten it.
OYOH, a towel bar, when it looks fine without the towel bar, and you just happen to want a place for your towel, would have to be specified.
You haven't given any example of what about their job is not good. That would help.
A rough measure but not one good enough for court** might be, if someone came over and looked at the work and said, "These guys did a bad job", you might have a case for small claims court. But if it is just your word against theirs, you will lose, because it's your responsibility to prove your side. You need pictures, and to determine amount, proably an estimate from another contractor about what it would cost to make their job look and work right.
**For court, you'll have to state and hopefully show with pictures or somehow what moldings are missing, what parts are suppposed to be horizontal or vertical but aren't, what is dripping,
Many/most contracts have a clause that says "This represents the entire agreement between the buyer and seller and there are no verbal amendments to this contract" Does yours have that? Even if it doesn't, what other evidence do you have besides your word of other things they said they woudl do? Or, as above, are these things that weren't done "other things" or are they just part of doing a workmanlike job on things they agreed to do.
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