Dishwasher TSP

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You live in Oklahoma?
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On Feb 12, 9:45 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

tumble dry.....
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On Feb 12, 9:45 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

Thats a lot of TSP, maybe half that.
Jimmie
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Freeze-dried water.
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Where I live, I can by true TSP Trisodium Phosphate at Home Depot, in the paint department, next to solvents such as Acetone, Xylene, etc.
It comes in a small box and looks like this:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU ™8007334
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RogerT wrote:

At about $2.50 for a one-pound box, that should be sufficient for more than 100 dishwasher loads (at 1 tsp per load).
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Or Savogran TSP in the red box, not the worthless substitute stuff in the green box.
I'm looking for a source for a 55 gallon drum of dry food grade TSP cause you know the busybodies are going to try to get TSP banned next, at least at the retail level.
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Pavel314 wrote:

It even worse.
Sometime back I picked up a spray bottle of TSP at the box store. Never really used it.
Yesterday, I examined the bottle label.
-------------------------------------------- BIIX Used by contractors since 1957
TSP <---in really big letters READY TO USE No-Rinse Substitute No Odor Pre-Paint Surface Preparation De-Glosses - Degreases - Cleans Phosphate-free <--- WTF? ---------------------------------------- HOW can you have a bottle of trisodium phosphate with no phosphate? If they're saying "TSP" is a brand-name of random letters, why didn't they use "COKE" or "FORD"? It's only one more letter?
The buggers LIED! That's exactly what they did. Buncha creeps, you ask me!
=================As to your wife's observation that adding TSP (the REAL stuff, not that mock-TSP from BIIX) improves cleaning, I can second that opinion.
A comparison of flatware done with the addition of a teaspoon of TSP (the honest TSP, not the faux-TSP that BIIX sells ) with utensils in the drawer and washed without benefit of TSP (righteous TSP) showed a remarkable difference.
The silverware in the drawer reminded one of a "flat" finish in paint. The newly-washed silverware had a finish similar to "high gloss."
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The DW detergent we use reads on the box contents>>Sodium carbonate, Sodium silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new. Gets used about 12 times a week. WW
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Members Mark. Buy it at Sam's Club. WW
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wrote:

Look for the same ingredients. WW
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Thanks.
Does anyone know where to buy TSP in bulk online?
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TY .. all I could find was the fake stuff.
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G. Morgan wrote:

Why go to the trouble? Home Depot has a one-pound box for ~$2.50. One pound is sufficient for a couple hundred dishwasher loads. (HD also has five-pound boxes.)
My next purchase of dishwasher detergent will be the powdered kind, then I'll do the math for mingling the right amount of TSP with the box of detergent.
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Gels are definitely not the way to go.

You raise an interesting point. I did the math and it worked out to about 1 teaspoon per dispenser cup. And in fact, using that amount did make a dramatic difference in the performance of the dishwasher. But I see see the occasional bad batch of clean glassware, and if you go back and read one of the two articles posted earlier in this thread, they talk about phospahtes being up to 1/3 of older formulations. So - time for some more experimentation I think.
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On 2/13/2011 9:53 AM, Robert Neville wrote:

For almost a big box of detergent now I've used the following combination of procedures with flawless results.
#1. Mixed ONE CUP of TSP with a 75 oz box of Great value power from wal-mart
#2. only fill the cups in the DW about half full
#3. Add one cup of white vinegar to each load
#4. set the dw to "heated wash" even though i run my water heater at 140 and it's about 10 feet away.
I mixed the TSP with the entire contents of powder in a large bowl, with a large serving spoon, then cut a cross shaped slit in the top of the detergent box, and put it back in with a kitchen funnel. The box can then still be used as designed.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
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Last time I looked all they had was the fake stuff, we both live in HOU so I'll check around some more.

That's what I was going to do too, mix it in gallon containers with tight lids.
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"Pavel314" wrote in message
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent. Half a tablespoon works wonders.
By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the "Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/another-triumph-greens_536862.html
Paul ==================== TSP wasn't removed from dishwasher detergents, sodium tripolyphosphate was. If I decide to supplement my dishwasher detergent, STPP is what I’ll use, and only at the bare minimum effective dose. My detergent cup holds a little under 2 tb for liquids, and I suppose about 3 tb for powders. Considering phosphates only made up about 8% of the old detergents, I might start with 1/4 tsp to see how it goes.
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True, but TSP is more readily available to consumers than STPP is. The two are very closely related, but I haven't found a good description of what the difference is.

You are measuring by volume so there won't be any difference between liquid and powder. Using the minimal amount necessary to get good results is good for a number of reasons.

Not 100% of STPP results in elemental phosphorus. If you are interested in the chemistry, you should read the Chemical and Engineering News article here: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html
The key sentence is:
Added to U.S. dishwasher detergents at up to 35% by weight, sodium tripolyphosphate (STPP), the main detergent phosphate, was something of a wonder ingredient, helping to maintain pH, remove food and grease, inhibit corrosion, and suspend insoluble dirt.
That sentence speaks to weight and not volume, but my guess is that there isn't a lot of difference between the weight of dry dishwasher deterent and STPP so it shouldn't matter. It really depends on the chemistry of your water supply. You could start with a teaspoon of STPP and go up to a tablespoon if required.
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