dishwasher install

Hi,
I don't know what to do first. I want to have a dishwasher. The problem is when my house was built, I failed to tell the builder to include a dishwasher space, where I can just install my dishwasher. My house is now 2 years old and I can't run after the builder now.
I think I have a rough-in for dishwasher pipe/ or something for dishawasher to hook-up to. But I don't have an empty space where I can put my dishwasher. I have to free up one of my kitchen cabinets and make a hole on the rest of cabinets?
Who should I call about this? plumber? contractor?
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You have to remove a 24" cabinet. Best location is right next to the sink. A good home handyman can do this.
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I would go with a Contractor, Maybe a Cabinet shop. Get As close as possible to the sink You can run your water and waste behind the cab.The water and waste are easy Put a angle stop with outlets on the Hot water. The waste goes to a air cap on the sink and then to the Disposal.
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Two outlets on the hot side
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On Thu 03 Nov 2005 05:46:37p, Sacramento Dave wrote in alt.home.repair:

Not all codes require an air gap at sinktop level.
--
Wayne Boatwright **
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Yes, but an air gap is good idea for 3 reasons: 1. It protects the dishwashers from sewage back-flow and contamination in the drain line
2. It introduces air to the top most level in order to break the water flow and to prevent siphoning in the drain line after the drain period.
3. It gives the water somewhere to go if there is a blockage at the disposer, which helps protect the dishwasher pump.
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Relevant story: For a while my Kenmore dishwasher wouldn't drain.
All the hoses seemed clear, and somehow I decided the pump was working.
I was befuddled. I finally found a little chicken bone, the one that's next to the chicken leg bone, in the air gap. Took it out and the dishwasher worked fine. I have no idea why.
(This is not a reason not to have an airgap. Just a story about one.)
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wrote:

Well, an air gap is a potential source of blockages which will disable the dishwasher. Instructions that came with our unit suggest that the airgap device must be able to pass a 3/8 inch ball to MINIMIZE drain line blockages.
I cleared a drain line blockage for my daughter-in-law by removing the cap on her airgap unit and removing some fibrous food residue -- so it does happen, though not very often.
A new dishwasher should provide adequate installation instructions covering these details. Incidentally, to quote from mine --
"If an air gap is not code required, the drain hose must have a high drain loop (18" min. above floor level) to prevent back-flow of water into the dishwasher or water syphoning out during operation. CAUTION: An air gap MUST BE USED if drain hose is connected to house plumbing lower than 18" above floor level."
I provided the high loop on mine by hanging a part of the hose over a hook high in the cabinet under the sink.
SJF
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I should have said that I only had the small end of that bone, substantially less than 3/8th's. Of course maybe something else is different bettween yours and mine, but it seemed small in comparison to the whole hole.

Yeah, that sounds like what happened to me. next time I'll check the air gap early in the process.

So it is called an air gap, not an air cap. :)
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Sacramento Dave wrote:

I'm curious what is an air cap? My disposal hose currently and on the previous disposal ran directly to a fitting on the disposal. I just finished fixing a sink for another person (leaks, etc.) and the drain went directly to a fitting on the sink drain pipe (just below the sinking basket (not disposal).
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:04:02 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

I probably made a mistake just now when I called it an airgap.
An air cap is visible at the top of the sink, to the right usually of the faucet. It appears as a chromer cap and is mounted in the hole that might otherwise have held the soap bottle or the vegetable sprayer.
The drain water of the dishwasher goes up there, and then down to the disposal. It's pumped up there, and uses gravity to get to the disposal. Like a water fountain bubbler. Since it's not a closed tube, it can't siphon. I forget what direction the siphoning would go in, but it has something to do with germs. :)
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mm wrote:

You are WAY out of my league. I've never seen such a thing. Heck I've never see a hole that would hold a soap bottle. I've seen and have a sprayer (doesn't have anything to do with vegetables tho, suppose you could use if to spray vegetable, but most use it to spray plates and utensils.

I can see how that would work, just never seen one. Dish washers usually suggest that you route the hose up as high as possible before attaching to the drain or disposal. That essentially stops siphoning. Course if you drain is plugged it could siphon back to the washer if the water got as high as the maximum height of the hose. But then, you would have a lot more to worry about than a few bacteria in your washer, which could easily be killed by just running the washer anyway.
Ah me, what complicated things people think up.

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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:03:50 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

It's hard to believe I've surpassed someone by knowing about soap bottles, but I'll settle for anything these days.

I only use mine to fill things that won't fit under the faucet, but my recollection is that when these first came out (in the 50's or 60's) they were called vegetable sprayers. Referring to their use in washing fresh vegetables.

I've only had two, one when I was 10 and the other when I was 36. I probably read the owner's manual for the second one, but it's been 22 years. (still works fine and it's 26 years old. The only problem was the chicken bone I mentioned above. I don't bother much cleaning the dishes in advance. If they come out dirty, and once in a while they do, I scrub them in the sink and wash them again.

I dont' remember why the anti-siphon is thought to be necessary, but it was a good reason. Or was that the sprinkler system?
I guess it was that water in a clogged disposal or a clogged trap would be siphoned back to the dishwasher.
You'e right it could be killed by running the washer, but as long as the drain is clogged, you can't really do that. So not only would the drain have a surface several inches below the sink that was disgusting, but there wouldbe a bigger surface visible in the dishwasher that was disgusting. Might smell bad after a day or two.
I myself have never had a clogged toilet or a clogged drain (except for that chicken bone incident, which left nothing disgusting in the dishwasher, just mildly dirty water) so, like you, it's hard for me to worry about this.
Plus, I would have liked to have saved that hole for a soap dispenser or a vegetable sprayer.;) but when I got the new faucet, the sprayer mounted in the faucet escutcheon, sort of in place of a bolt. So I didn't need the hole. (and if the dishwasher hadn't required a hole, they probably would have bought a sink with no hole. Catch 22.)
And the soap dispenser turned out to be 40 dollars iirc, an exorbitant price for something that might be hard to refill, when I can use a plastic bottle on the counter for free.
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Similar idea.
The DW is to prevent water from a clogged sink or disposal from backing up into the DW.
Sprinkler systems require a backflow preventor that does a similar function and prevents water coming back through, possibly bringing lawn chemicals, getting intothe domestic water systems.
Households rarely have backflow preventors, but they are becoming more commonplace. Industry has been using them for years where they connect from city water to industrial use.
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mm wrote:

((snipped))
((cut))
Funny thing, today in the plumbing parts at Lowes, I saw one of your air caps while looking for another drain part. I'd rather call it an air gap or a siphon breaker as more descriptive. Still, most sinks just have holes for the faucets and a sprayer and I don't see air caps installed in the store displays.
Wouldn't filling a soap dispensers be a pita compared to just using a counter bottle? Also, does a drain that frequently receives dish washing water clog? That stuff is so caustic that I would think drains plugging would be very rare.
We've been in our house (new at purchase) 29 years and we have never had a plugged drain. I can't remember ever having a plugged drain in any of the apartments we rented or in my parents houses. We are probably more careful than many people tho as we don't put golf balls down the sink or commode. Heck we hardly ever used the grinder-upper either since we composted most everything. And at the slightest hint of slow draining I always do a draino treatment, mostly in the bathroom sinks due to hair accumulation.
I think the air cap is in the same league as the phone company selling insurance for your telephone wiring in your house. Heck, for $25 I can buy all the tools and parts I need to replace all of the wire and it wouldn't take more than an an hour and a half. one-half hour would be unloading the closet to get into the crawl space and 1/2 hour would be for rounding up lights and tools, kicking the cat out, yelling at the wife, etc. So that would only leave 1/2 for crawling around the crawl space. The insurance amount looks like a pittance, but the likelihood of ever needing to use it would mean at least a 30 year pay period.
Now the water company wants to insure your pipe from the meter into the house. Say that gets you people working on the problem right away, etc., etc. In my case it is only a 30 foot line buried probably 3 feet deep. Base on their monthly cost, if I paid for that insurance since I bought the house, I would have paid more than $1500.
I could hire a couple of kids to dig it up for $200, or maybe just rent a trencher to dig it and let the kids clean up the trench and widen the ends of the trench for $100 more. So say $300. The insurance makes the air cap a piker. No thanks to all three.
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Wherever you purchase the dishwasher will likely have an installer that they use.
Chances are very good that the cabinets already have been designed to permit easy installation of the unit.
Peter H
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Are you sure he didn't leave a space, just one filled with a cabinet?
What is the width of the cabinet next to your sink. It might be the same as a dishwasher.
You might have to loosen the kitchen counter and lift it up to get the cabinet out -- I guess you do, I've just never needed to get a cabinet out. Then slide in the dishwasher and connect it to the water supply and the drain (probably through the garbage disposal).
If the cabinet next to the sink is not the right width, maybe another one is. Take that one out, then slide the other cabinets over to fill up the space, and you'll have an empty space next to the sink.

I don't understand why you need to make a hole in other cabinets.

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there are also 18" dishwashers [like DANBY], and portable dishwashers.
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The big issue is getting a 24 inch wide, (normal cabinet space), where you want the dishwasher to go, which usually is on either side of the sink. You need to inspect what is already there. If it's an existing cabinet that you can do without, then is can usually be easily removed. If not, then I would try to identify who supplied/installed the cabinets and get them to take a look and give you options. You could also take some pics of what you have and go to the cabinet shop as a first step.
Of course, a lot of this depends on your skill and how much you can do yourself. The actual dishwasher install is pretty easy. But it can get more complicated, and in your case the next challenge may be that there is no electrical connection available.
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