Discharging gray water to back alley

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:55:39 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"

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In alt.home.repair on 26 Feb 2005 20:49:31 -0800 "Porky"

And not only that, except for a tiny bit** all the water we have is the same water we started with at creation. (But Tony is getting soap in it. Shame, shame. :) )
**A little has been split into hydrogen and oxygen, and a little has been created from those in fuel cells, but not much.
Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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"Hi, Calgary Alberta. My brother worked for city water department. It's bylaw often not reinforced but one can get ticket. We're talking about storm sewer water recycling, oil industry water reccycling, water conserving fixtures in all new houses, program for people to swap
out old toilets, water meter, etc. We're trying to be ready years from now. Water is getting scarce even here. Every drop counts. Older brush car wash place is being phased out. No touch brushless water conserving ultrasonic car wash is taking over.
U.S. is No. 1 energy user/polluter in the world. U.S. better take a lead in this field as well. Tony "
Thanks for the tip Tony. I did a little checking on Alberta after your post and I was right, I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there. I looked at the municipal water dept rules and it looks like there is no immediate water shortage, but Calgary does have a water use restricition plan for times of drought or emergency. Guess what, even here, in the US, most municipalites, including my own, have that.
It appears however, that the reason Calgary has their shorts in a knot over car washing is that some environmental kooks think this is some big source of pollution going into the storm drains. Here's an excerpt from a Canadian website that's driving this whole idea: http://www.forester.net/sw_0205_take.html
"A municipality that has limited driveway car washing is Calgary, AB, on the Bow River. Although car washing is not expressly forbidden, the Drainage Bylaw states that there can be no deleterious discharge from a property to the storm sewer system. The city fines violators $300 and enforces the bylaw through a snitch line. Convicting violators is probably not the point, but the symbolism is powerful."
Nice system, complete with snitch line. And everyone should go read the basis and rational used to come up with the idea that people washing their car is a major source of pollution worth fixing.
Facts like "the results of a study of highway runoff toxicity by the National Water Research Institute (NWRI), which characterized car detritus as one of the major nonpoint sources of heavy metals, oil and grease, and other components, such as rubber. NWRI concluded that road runoff contains potential, confirmed, or severe toxicity in three-fifths of all samples"
Now that's a real gem. What the hell does road run off have to do with washing your car? One would think that the major components of pollution on the road are left there from tire wear, oil dripping, transmission leaks, etc., which the excerpt even lists. Has anyone shown that what is typically on a car in the form of dirt is the same, or even close to the same? And then we have the fact that millions of miles of roadway gets washed down with every rainfall and where does that all go? It all goes untreated right into storm sewers and then into rivers, lakes and streams. Now how much does that contribute to pollution as compared to some people occasional washing off their cars? And doesn't it snow up there? What does Calgary put on the roads when it's icey? Isn't that a far more significant contributor to pollution to streams than your neighbor washing his car?
And if that isn't all stupid enough, if you look at Calgary water use restrictions, unless there is a water emergency, you can still wash off your driveway, house, etc., just not your car. Don't these other things have dirt that's quite similar, especially the driveway?
So, my conclusion is this is just another example of some environmental whackos going to the extreme. You know the type. They tell us we shouldn't wash our car, while they drive SUVs that get 15 miles to the gallon on weekend ski trips, or think nothing of how much pollution their jet trip to Paris created or how much water it took to fill bathroom spa. There are lots of things that are being done to protect the environment. But keeping people from washing their cars isn't one of them.
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There was speculation about running a pipeline from Lake Superior to restore water levels in the Ogalalla Aquifer. ( Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa etc. )
At the very hint of the idea, some Minnesotans replied; "You're not taking OUR water !"
But then, they were being assholes.....

<rj>
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orangetrader wrote:

It is interesting that the question is about the neighbors reactions to your actions and not a question on how to fix the drain problem. I guess that explains where your priorities are.
--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:55:25 -0500, "orangetrader"

I wrote my state epa asking codes that effect using washer rinse water for watering the yard. They gave me a reply that matches what you got, don't do it. Read as I match up what I received to your post.

No not the same, laundry water its typically contaiminated with human fecal/body waste bacteria, unlike your car I HOPE.

Code violation I could have faced was discharge of untreated human waste. The lady from the state referenced many pa waste water laws, that referenced the safety of laundry grey water, and one researcher commented how laundry water is always contaiminated with fecal waste bacteria, more often than the house hold toliet.

No regs for just soapy water, since soapy water is a natural insectiside and rocommended, but as posted up top, you water contains more than soap.

"might" will get you a ticket. If a cop says something might be lawful, and you do it and get ticketed, you will have no defense saying a cop said, "it might be lawful".

hth,
tom
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I do water sampling for Florida DEP and they say there is basically no difference between fecal coliform from birds, cows or humans as far as the danger goes. Our tests do not differentiate. Poop is poop.
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:12:36 -0500, The Real Tom <Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com> wrote:

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I remember that. Years ago most laundry was done in the basement or a laundry room that had a big double tub and the machine emptied into the tub. Today, you are likely to find the machine emptying into a stand pipe and the whole thing tucked into a bathroom or closet.
If you go back to the old wringer washer, it was common to do a couple of batches in the soapy water before draining and rinsing the clothing. Then the wet stuff was hung outside. Apartments had lines strung out the window on a pulley.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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On 27 Feb 2005 05:37:56 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Excellent rebuttal Trader. A tip of the hat to you.
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The Real Tom wrote:

There would be regs for soapy water from washing a car in some watersheds.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:08:14 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"

Very Good point, I never investigated water shed issues, since I believe I do not live in one.
later,
tom @ www.love-calculators.com

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There are two definitions of "watershed" in the US; one of them is the area that drains into a specific body of water, (usually a river). The other is wrong. But the word is used as a synonym for "divide", as in "the Great Divide", which (again, in the US) names the border between the pacific watershed and the atlantic.
If your house is build on the ground, you live on a watershed.
--Goedjn
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A divide is the line that separates two watersheds.
The great divide separates the "pacific" watershed from the "atlantic" watershed.
One time I peed on the great divide and half of the pee went west and half went east :-)
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Harry Everhart wrote:

I believe that may be Gulf ?

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Joseph Meehan wrote:

The Gulf (I assume you mean of Mexico) is attached to the Atlantic, not the Pacific... :)
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:49:41 -0600, Duane Bozarth

Baja?
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Yeah, I drove past a feedlot in California recently where there must have been 10,000 cows defecating in an area the size of a city block. Butt...there were no people living there, where there, who could handle that stink? Cowshit is usually harmless, BTW, and so is grey water, usually. Doesn't make it a good thing to pollute your neighbour's alleyway with sudsy water. There are cities in the world where raw sewage flows in open ditches down the street. Not healthy. Dig a small pit in the backyard, (set the sod aside so you can reuse it, and shovel the dirt onto a tarp). If your drain is plugged there are ways to unclog it without ripping it out.
JohnK
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That's not entirely true, I just needed some time to research the problem and find the best solution possible.
O

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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:25:28 -0500, orangetrader wrote:

So what have you decided to do?
I mean, what else is there to do, except FIX the "drain problem"?
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
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There are several ways to fix the problem, from riping up the kitchen tile and open a minimum 18" x 18" hole through the concrete slab and replace the PVC pipe from above - cost: $1750 + cabinet + tile + counter top replacement, or trench a lateral tunnel 6 feet long from the side of the house and at least 7 feet deep to get under the 3' deep footing for about $3000 minimum, to other solutions. They are all tricky and they are all expensive. Why do you all assume this is a half day roll up your sleeve and do it solution?
O

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