A 'back water' or 'back alley' description. Less than desirable?

[bruce bowser]

Is a 'back water' or 'back alley' living or business arrangement less than desirable? How did these terms come to be?

[angelica...]

Try google:

origin of word backwater

I had less luck with

origin of back-alley

[Ed Pawlowski]

Having lived in a big city, many older homes were built with a narrow alley in the back, usually running parallel to the street in front. If you were to rent a place with an alley entrance it would definitely be considered low class.

[Marilyn Manson]

I would ascribe backwater to a living arrangement (a backwater town) and back alley to a business arrangement (a back alley deal) based on the definitions below.

Backwater (last sentence)

"The word backwater has been around since the 14th Century meaning ?water behind a dam.? Now it refers to any flat water, not just the water behind a dam. Backwater can also describe a place or situation that seems stuck in a rut, unmoved by current events."

Back Alley (definition # 2) Yes, "squalid" can be applied to a living arrangement, but I've never heard "back alley" applied in that manner.

1: having a mean, furtive, or squalid character or air back-alley gossip 2: done secretly and illegally by someone using crude and dangerous methods

[Marilyn Manson]

Having lived in a *big* city, many alley entrances were for basement apartments that would definitely not be considered low class.

Many middle class neighborhoods had alleys that were accessed via a sloped driveway (some pretty steep). The only exterior entrance to the basement of many row houses was through the alley entrance. Just because your apartment was in a basement and accessed via the alley, didn't automatically make it "low class". Some nice middle class folk put some nice middle class apartments in their basements.

Want to go upscale in with an alley entrance? Look at some of the "alleys" in NYC. Random find: 8 Grace Court Alley, Brooklyn.

Historical "low class" pricing:

1 previous sale ($2,950,000) 2 previous rentals ($11,000/m avg price)

[Dean Hoffman]

A backwater town to me would be one fitting the third sentence above. One the world largely passes by. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Back alley is either one of the two definitions below. Back alley is sneaky in some way.

[gfretwell]

That was my first thought. As soon as the Yuppies found those ghetto homes and gentrified them they suddenly became trendy. One of our DC friends bought a run down row house on East Capitol street for about $20,000 and a grant from the city, when it was a hooker stroll. After a lot of sweat equity, some materials and a couple of rough years it was suddenly a hot neighborhood and he got over $300k for it. Now they are up in the megabucks.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Your experience is far from the alleys of Philadelphia. I'm talking about the 3 foot wide passage ways. What you show is wider than some of the Streets in parts of Philly. Many years ago there were no ally entrances to $11,000 apartments.

[Clare Snyder]

Not necessarily, but if your address was on the back alley - definitely - like livong in the garage or coach=house / servant's quarters. A "backwater" refers to the dankwst part of a Bayou

[Marilyn Manson]

Perhaps you should look elsewhere in Philly, such as Elfreth's ally.

Is a $400K townhouse with an alley entrance considered "low class"?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.952766,-75.1423051,3a,75y,125.63h,85.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srKAzQvLBH8kcFfIwpbcDZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Marilyn Manson]

Still not definitely.

Coach houses, barns and even garages have been renovated and turn into some pretty sweet living spaces.

The fact that the place has an "alley address" doesn't make it "definitely low class". It depends on the location, location, location of the alley.

Check out Elfreth's Alley in Philadelphia.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, one street. I can show you miles of back alleys starting with my grandmother's back.

back al·ley /bak ?al?/ Learn to pronounce noun a narrow passage behind or between buildings. "we exited into a back alley via the fire door" adjective secret or illegal, as might be found in a back alley. "a back-alley drug deal"

[Ed Pawlowski]

So what? It is a term that has origins other than a historic street.

[Marilyn Manson]

Your comment was "If you were to rent a place with an alley entrance it would definitely be considered low class."

Yes, in some cases an alley entrance is considered low class, but it's definitely not a definite.

[Marilyn Manson]

Oh, come on. Do I have to post a link to every nice alley to prove that they exist? I think you are smarter than that.

I'm sure you can, but there's no need to because *I* know that both kinds exist. I've played ball in them, sledded in them, even entered the basement of my house via one.

My only objection is to your use of the word "definitely" when saying that an alley entrance is "low class". Even *one* nice alley entrance negates the word "definitely". That's my only point.

Moving on.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, I should have said in 900,600 out of 1,000,000

[Scott Lurndal]

And, perhaps, the use of disadvantaged or less wealthy would have been more accurate than 'low class'.

Certainly less judgemental.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Considering the timing the word came into use, low class was fitting. Cut the judgmental crap, tell the truth.

[bruce bowser]

Both sometimes describe and attitude without even describing a location.

[bruce bowser]

Both sometimes describe an attitude without even describing a location.