dedicated dripping faucet?

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During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and turn off the faucet completely.
Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.
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On 11/25/2013 7:22 PM, bob wrote:

How about a piercing valve for like an ice maker. That gives you a bit of water, and some tubing you can run here or there.
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Christopher A. Young
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Not the faucet, rather the pipe that some dummy ran in an uninsulated exterior wall.
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On 11/25/2013 8:18 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I had that happen, one time. Cinder block building, and it froze in front of a window. I crumpled a bunch of news paper, stuffed in, and the pipe didn't freeze again.
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On 11/25/2013 8:18 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I got to thaw a frozen pipe one time, cellar of an old farm house. Froze right at a window. It was about 7F outside, and the sash didn't seal well. I put in a couple zip screws to hold it.
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I did see a pipe freeze, one time, in a farm house. I was watching house for Farmer Bob. Kitchen sink, on exterior wall. I opened up under the sink cabinet, and put a fan, and threw some more wood on the fire. Loosened up after a while, fortunately.
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On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:26:37 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Sure, that's not uncommon. The problem is the moron who ran the pipes in an uninsulated (or improperly insulated) wall in the first place. Pipes should never be run in exterior walls where sub-zero temperatures are common. Care should be taken that they're properly insulated if there is even a chance of freezing weather.
In the case above, the cabinet keeps the room heat from getting to that area. Letting water drip (or small stream) will often keep the pipe from freezing because you're pulling heat from elsewhere in the structure into that space and moving the water out before it can freeze.
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On 11/29/2013 6:37 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

It's mollecular allignment, not moving heat from other parts of the house. http://phys.org/news/2011-11-supercool-doesnt-.html
In Farmer Bob's house, he's got a well, and pump. And septic. I didn't want to leave it drip, wasn't sure if the septic lines would freeze.
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On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 08:04:19 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Nope. It's heat. A little drip, or trickle, isn't going to do it.

Septic lines won't (easily) freeze. They should be deep enough, as should the water from the well. Of course, if they were put in by the same moron that put pipes in uninsulated exterior walls...
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On 11/30/2013 9:50 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Come, now. I've provided the scientific evidence that moving water won't freeze because of mollecular allignment. Are you going to continue to deny the facts?
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On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 09:58:58 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Except that it does. If it didn't, rivers would never freeze.
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On 11/30/2013 10:56 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Rivers have calm spots, where the water isn't moving. I guess you don't know the facts.
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On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 12:21:26 -0500, Stormin Mormon

I know them well enough. So do pipes. The fact is that super-cooling (nucleation) is only a small factor, relative to heat.
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Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...
Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.
Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first place?
There's lot of details that you should be sharing.
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On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.
Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.
Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the outside hose bib, however).
Jon
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I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the faucet to drip.
As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if (s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.
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On 11/26/2013 3:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

You're sure about that? Frozen water doesn't run...but that's confusing cause and effect.
Dripping the faucet has nothing to do with flow. It's all about the thermodynamics of putting heat in faster than it radiates to keep the temperature above freezing. If you have a source of unfrozen water running at a rate that gets it to the dripping faucet before radiation/conduction/convection causes the water to freeze at any point in the pipe you're good to go.
Dripping the bathroom faucet typically won't do much for the kitchen pipe.
Dripping is most effective when you have a short run of pipe that's exposed to the cold, but the rest is much warmer. If you have a quick response thermometer, you can do the experiment. Let the system sit for a while. Then turn on the faucet and watch the temperature. You'll see where the pipe is most exposed to the cold as a function of time.
When I replaced the water service, I discussed the issue with the inspector. He insists that water meters don't freeze, even tho they're much more exposed than the rest of the buried pipe. When I started talking thermodynamics, his eyes glazed over. ;-)
That

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No, it's two separate things.

Yes it does. Dripping at the faucet causes and is equivalent to flow. from where the water enters the house to where it drips. Whetther the drip rate is enough or not to keep t he water from freezing doesn't change that.

True, but if the water spends less time in the pipe, it has less time to radiate heat. If there is no drip, it can spend 16 hours or more at a time in the same spot of the pipe. Much more if the kitchen isn't used. If it's dripping, it might only spend 10 minutes, or 3 hours, but still less than without a drip.
My friends bought a new house and the first winter a pipe running up to the second floor, right by the back door, froze and leaked. When they opened the wall, they saw the insulation had been put on the wrong side of the pipe.

True.

Of course not. I don't think he was suggesting that. I thought he was trying to get the pipe that is dripping not to freeze.

From this paragraph on, I think we are agreeing.

Do you think he's right. I don't have a water meter and neither do my 100 neighbors, so I have no experience with them.

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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

Running water doesn't freeze because:
1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.
2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.
In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.
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On 11/27/2013 3:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Insulating the pipe is usually a good thing. It may be the solution. If the water is not moving and bringing in more heat, insulation will just mean it takes longer to freeze. It may be that there's enough conduction thru the water and the pipe from a part of the pipe in a warm environment to keep the temperature up. But insulation on the warm part of the pipe reduces that effect. Most home dwellers won't have the knowledge to figure out the fine details.
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