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Contractor hit a wire while nailing up moulding in kitchen

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. If you have a question, ask it.

R
Reply to
RicodJour
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We had damaged wiring in our condo when the upstairs neighbor nailed flooring through the conduit. The guy seemed to play dumb, denied using power nailer. There were two breaker trips while nailing, but the power was on when the breaker was reset. Third time was the charm - no power after resetting the breaker. To make a long story short, the final nail caused the copper wire to burn through entirely. After the wire on the circuit was replaced, we got the old wire to keep for posterity. There were numerous nicks in the insulation that exposed bare copper. Some of the nicks also had black char marks around them on the insulation. Our condo board, as usual, got pissy about paying and we had two electricians involved. The electrician who did the final work said that the conduit was too close to the floor above and was a code violation.

FWIW, isn't it normal to nail molding to the studs? Any reason not to? Don't know the best practice on that, but a conversation with the contractor might convince him to open the wall and make the needed repair to the wall if wiring is bad.

Reply to
norminn

Seems clear to me......a reasonable statement of the "latent and concealed conditions" concept that has be the "at issue" in 100's if not 1000's of court cases.

Contractors are not expected to have x-ray vision but engineers are supposed to be able to see into the future. :)

If the contract used a reasonably sized fastener and he reasonably placed it and it hits a hidden wire that itself was poorly placed then he is not at fault.

But if he used a grossly inappropriately sized fastener or placed on poorly...then he is at fault.

Just an application of the legal concept of "a prudent man" .....which btw seems to have died an untimely death back in 70's when stupidity took took over as the reigning concept in jury decisions.

cheers Bob

Reply to
fftt

Mine was pretty easy to fix. But since I didn't have an attic.

Reply to
Master Betty

Don't remember but as I recall I screwed in too deep and got the short on the drill I was using. I'm assuming 'short' because it sparked. It didn't just die. I backed the screw out and thought it would be ok. Then I plugged in my computer and got a spark enough to fry the board. Man did that suck. But being a musician I figured I was lucky it was my computer.

When I opened up the wall there was a pretty good sized black spot on the wire. Something caused it to fry the computer/printer ~ ground or neutral caused it to short. I assume. Maybe you can dx from my description.

Was an easy but expensive. I just opened up a small hole and installed a control box where it shorted. I actually did it on another spot in the ceiling too.

Reply to
Master Betty

Not to mention that it isn't code to patch it unless you leave access to the new junction box.

Reply to
Tony

The nail could have partially severed one of the conductors. In that happened, he now could have 18 gauge wire instead of 12. Put enough load on it and it gets hot, melts, arcs and if something flamable is nearby, which isn't that unusual in an old house, he could have a fire.

Reply to
trader4

As others have said, I don't see in any way that the contractor is responsible to fix his "mistake". What exactly is the mistake he is supposed to have made? Unless he used an extaordinarily long nail, he isn't liable for wiring that was run too close to the surface without a plate to protect it.

He clearly should have told the homeowner that it should be inspected and fixed. But that is the homeowner's problem and expense. Plus, last time I checked, a carpenter is licensed to do electrical work.

Reply to
trader4

As others have said, I don't see in any way that the contractor is responsible to fix his "mistake". What exactly is the mistake he is supposed to have made? Unless he used an extaordinarily long nail, he isn't liable for wiring that was run too close to the surface without a plate to protect it.

He clearly should have told the homeowner that it should be inspected and fixed. But that is the homeowner's problem and expense. Plus, last time I checked, a carpenter is licensed to do electrical work.

Who said anything about a "contractor" ???..The OP said he had "a guy come over to help put up some moulding." Hardly sounds like a contractor..IMHO... If the OP feels it should be checked he should do it or call an electrician....I'm gonna have a "guy" (my dad) come over and help me reframe

3 window openings and install new windows...If something goes wrong , I should hold him accountable ?? LOL.....
Reply to
benick

What the contractor should have done is stop work and have you call in an electrician to see what was going on. It is not his fault the wire was there. You would be stuck with the electricians bill and delays caused to carpenter unless you can find someone else to blame it on. If your house burns down on account of it he is still not responsible because he is not an electrician and he let you know about the problem and now it is documented that you were aware and concerned but did nothing so far.

Jimmie. .

Reply to
JIMMIE

What the contractor should have done is stop work and have you call in an electrician to see what was going on. It is not his fault the wire was there. You would be stuck with the electricians bill and delays caused to carpenter unless you can find someone else to blame it on. If your house burns down on account of it he is still not responsible because he is not an electrician and he let you know about the problem and now it is documented that you were aware and concerned but did nothing so far.

Jimmie. .

==========

I "think"....but could be completely wrong....When the contractor said "Don't worry about it." he left himself open to potential liability.

As far a documented....He didn't say anything about documentation....unless you're talking about this.

Regardless, if it were me, I'd find another contractor.

Reply to
Master Betty

Just about every stud finder out there also detects live AC wires - no reason a contractor should EVER hit an un-expected live wire.

There is a live wire there untill you prove there is not. PERIOD. ASSuming there is not is both dangerous and foolhardy.

Reply to
clare

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. If you have a question, ask it.

R

Your statement that the owner would bear the responsibility for this act befuddles me. The fact is that no matter what the location of the wire, the wire was in good shape before the contractor did whatever he did. At the least, he should have offered to open up a small area just to be safe. He did not even do that, and gave the person, a layman, advice from an expert professional that nothing was wrong, and it was safe, which may or may not be the case. In my opinion, that was not a professional thing to do, and a reasonable person would have cause to be concerned.

To the OP: Call your local Contractor's Board and the Fire Department and see what they say. Find out if this man is in fact a licensed contractor. I believe in your original question, you stated he was. If he is, they will mediate, and bring on a fair solution. If someone else has to fix this and open it up for inspection, it goes on him or his surety bond. They may be interested in the hijinks of this fellow, who may or may not be licensed. I, like you, would be concerned until I had a final impartial 100% sure answer. What you got was not the actions and behavior of a "professional contractor." And now you are living under stress from a potentially deadly situation.

Steve, a retired contractor

Reply to
SteveB

It's said that the entire corpus of contract law theory can be mastered by studying: The Fence, The Bull, and The Pit.

Here, we have a case of "The Pit," that is, a hidden hazard.

Some would argue that it is the responsibility of the owner to know, and inform others, about this sort of thing. While a person with access may exercise normal diligence, he cannot be expected to know all the problems. If, for example, a visitor fell though a rotten porch step, liability would lie with the owner of the porch. If, in this case, the carpenter shot a nail into a live wire and was electrocuted, most, if not all, of the fault would with the homeowner.

Admittedly, arguments can be made on either side. If I were on a jury, however, I'd vote with the carpenter.

Reply to
HeyBub

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hb1sp3 $haq$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

Don't worry. The fact that he read it on the internet wouldn't carry much weight anyway. Doubt if you'll be getting a subpoena :-)

Reply to
Red Green

Hi, Did the nail look clean, no serious sign of burn or spark?

Reply to
Tony Hwang

- Do you know any (professional) carpenter who uses a stud finder before every shooting every nail? Maybe they should but it's not something I have seen...

- Also, the AC detector is hardly failsafe, especially behind 1920's era plaster & lathe. Yes, it *may* detect a wire that is against the surface 1/2" sheetrock but if it is behind 1/2" (or more) plaster and 1/2 of lathe and maybe another 1/2-1" of stud then it likely won't detect it. (And in houses with horsehair plaster you do need longer nails since you need to penetrate the plaster and the lathe to get to the stud)

Reply to
blueman

I disagree with this.

The contractor was putting up molding on the ceiling. Any wires should be in the middle of the plate approximately 2 1/4" from the face of the plaster or wall board. If the trim was 3/8", then you would have to be using a pretty long nail to hit any wires that one might reasonably expect.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Normally, there is a top plate (think sideways stud) along the top of a wall, so you can land a nail anywhere along the path of the trim molding and hit wood

As others have pointed out there is a real threat here that a fire could be started from a nicked wire. I think however the contractors responsibility ends on informing the owner as he could not reasonably expected a wire in that location,

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

First off the nail made electrical contact between the hot conductor and the neutral or some sort of ground. We know this because the breaker blew.

There is no easy way to determine the damage to the conductor with out inspecting it, and a very great risk of fire for not inspecting for damage.

A no brainer. Fix it.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

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