Contractor hit a wire while nailing up moulding in kitchen

Had a guy come in to help put up wood moulding in the kitchen. Must have hit a wire becaue it blew a breaker. He pulled the nail out (small nail) and hammered it in elsewhere. Flipped the breaker back on. Said don't worry about it.

Now I lie awake at night fearing its a fire hazard.

Is it?

Reply to
Shaffer
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No way to tell without opening up the spot and looking, to see what the nail did. It is probably safe, if it hasn't caught fire already, but if it nicked a wire instead of just shorting it, it could overheat at that spot at some point.

-- aem sends...

Reply to
aemeijers

Thanks guys.

He was using a nail gun. The moulding was top of wall against the ceiling.

1920's house. No dry wall in rest of house, so I doubt any in kitchen. This was relayed to me by wifey. I was at work. :( What's wiring doing up there anyways?

Reply to
Shaffer

"Shaffer" wrote in news:ceydnfoF1vbodU7XnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

My first thought is why did he hit it with a small nail? When you say small you mean short? Finish nails from a nail gun are small as in narrow but can be 2.5" long.

In theory, wires should be running through the middle of studs 1.75" back. That + 1/2" drywall is 2.25. Then add in molding thickness.

Wiring that is run too close to edge of stud should have a metal plate. But that does nothing if the wiring is close to the inside of the drywall between the studs.

Where did it happen? In the field of a wall, top near ceiling, near floor?

Reply to
Red Green

"Shaffer" wrote in news:EvudnXOXapdHcU7XnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

I'm not familiar with 1920's houses but witing will typically run through the attic or between 1st & 2nd floors, go through the top plate of the wall and down the stud to the device.

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Reply to
Red Green

If you have a wife, have her lie awake worrying about fire. You need your sleep.

Reply to
mm

Post some photos of the location; overall shots & some closeups

I own a 1930 house & have taken apart, restored / rebuilt most of it.

Was the original K&T (knob & tube) replaced? Did some do it correctly or just jury rig in some Romex (NM)?

I think I ansered my own questions...I think it would be rather difficult to short a K&T run with a single brad. SO it must be rewired with romex such that a single brad shot would create a short.

Shorting a knob & tube system with a nail gun fired finishing nail or brad would be kinda hard to do if:

1) the proper length fastener was used 2) wires were / are properly placed.

I wouldn't "worry" about it but I'd make a mental (or written) note of it, so when (if) problems happen oyu can know where to look.

How big (diameter & length) was the fastener? I hope he picked a resonably sized nail otherwise he's kinda the cause of this mishap.

Brads & finishing nails don't need much more than 1" penetration into the "true" receiving member.....the timber beyond the drywall.

For a 1/16" (16 gage) brad ....3/4" penetration is a bit small, 1

1/2" is a bit too much .....1" or so it just about right.

So when picking fastener length I shoot for about 16 fastener diameters into the receiving member (not including the drywal) but I also consider the over penetration issues on plumbing & wiring. I tend to pick the shortest nail that will do the job

cheers Bob

Reply to
fftt

"> Had a guy come in to help put up wood moulding in the kitchen. Must have

*In a 1920's house that has had some electrical improvements over the years it is possible to have wiring anywhere. This is the kind of thing that will surface as a problem weeks, months or years from now. By nailing into the wiring and causing a dead short some of the copper wire is probably nicked. The wire may only be connected at that point by a hair, more or less. Depending on the load that travels over that point it can overheat and if it is in contact with combustible materials will burn whatever it touches. Eventually the wire will burn apart and whatever it is feeding will become dead. To answer your question: Yes it is a potential fire hazard.

For safety and piece of mind get an electrician in there and have him take a look.

Reply to
John Grabowski

On Oct 13, 7:38=EF=BF=BDam, "John Grabowski" wrot= e:

EXACTLY! open the wall and inspect the damage. perhaps access it from the other side.

its a real potential fire hazard

Reply to
bob haller

Agree with John and Bob. I would also say the contractor is not responsible for this. As others have pointed out, wiring is supposed to be run far enough back that a finishing nail from molding can't reach it or else have a metal plate covering it.

Reply to
trader4

If it shorts out again, it should blow the breaker again. Me, I'd want to take the area apart, and separate, and tape the wires. But, that's just me. From where I sit, it appears a very low risk of further problems.

This does not constitute legal or contractor advise, and I accept no liability for your decision.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Yep. Even if you had a contract, and the contract was any good, there'd be a clause in there about "latent and concealed conditions". The contractor doesn't have X-ray vision, and can't determine what is behind a wall. He has a reasonable expectation to believe that there aren't wires too close to the surface.

If the contractor was using unnecessarily long nails - say 3" to attach some trim - then there's some responsibility there, but it's basically the owner's.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

I will bet if he knew you would not hold him responsible he would say fix it, just like he would in his own house. And in the same line of thought, he doesnt care what he hides from you.

Reply to
ransley

Chances are nothing will happen but it's possible you could have a short there. It happened to me. A problem could occur if you have two appliances plugged into the same circuit and they complete the circuit. If you had two guitar players or mics in the same circuit and the musicians touched it could be deadly. You need to open the wall up. Pull the wire out. Cut it and splice it back together in a control box. Sorry for the bad news but there is a potential problem. BTW: the same thing happened to me. I destroyed a computer when I plugged it into a printer on a different outlet.

Reply to
Master Betty

BTW: ....get an electrician to fix it.

I read Christopher Young's post and got nervous. :-)

Reply to
Master Betty

short = connection that's not supposed to be connected Example: The nail caused a short betwen the hot and neutral.

open = connection that's supposed be there, but isn't. Example: The nail broke the wire, and now the wire is open.

Was your computer fried from an open neutral? So the power was going from black to black, instead of returning through the open neutral wire?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

And I would assume that a good electrician could just run a new wire from the attic down the wall to the outlet or whatever, disconnecting the old wire. A lot neater than the messy job of opening the wall and repatching.

Tom G.

Reply to
Tom G

ian to fix it.

re: "And I would assume that a good electrician could just run a new wire "

Of course, that's *after* assuming that the wire in question is nothing more than a point to point run, with access to both endpoints.

In a house that old, with "upgrades" that may not have used best practices, that wire could run between 2 concealed junction boxes or whatever.

We can already assume that things weren't done to code since the wire is assumed to have been too close to the surface, so who knows what else was done "wrong".

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Yep. Even if you had a contract, and the contract was any good, there'd be a clause in there about "latent and concealed conditions". The contractor doesn't have X-ray vision, and can't determine what is behind a wall. He has a reasonable expectation to believe that there aren't wires too close to the surface.

If the contractor was using unnecessarily long nails - say 3" to attach some trim - then there's some responsibility there, but it's basically the owner's.

R

Say WHAT?

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

It's your life, what do you think? If it was me, I'd have a small section removed and be 100% sure. And I'd call the contractor back and ask if he would do it. He obviously isn't very good, or he would have fixed his own mistake already.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

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