Complexity of dyes in kitchen cabinets

[Josepi]

Contractors do not charge for paperwork directly. That point would be moot.

When I spec'd a home with a builder I demanded plywood subflooring and stated I would pay the cost. He told me some outrageous figure that was about twice what I would pay for just the plywood without any rebates or compensation for the OSB board not used.

I agreed to pay it and then was told,

"We don't build that way, anyway. Go elsewhere, is you want that". I did.

As Lew stated, this is where the contractors make their money...not on competitive specs. Hurts, but when you do it, you will too.

So, how long?

[Josepi]

..and that is OK in your book?

To each his own but for the inconvenience of doing it differently (for you)... priceless.

Now if a client's changes become such that it starts to infringe upon the availability of the shop space and manpower to move onto the next project, hit them hard with 'discouragement fees'.

[Josepi]

"should" being the key word there.

You are too nice to your customers. You still want business later...LOL

[RicodJour]

I have no trouble believing that someone told you to go away even after you agreed to pay what they asked.

R

[Lew Hodgett]

--------- $750 for your contractor.

Since I would have to acquaint myself with the job, I'd want $2K as an inspection fee, then could give you an educated guess, but $750 seems a little light, especially since I detest paperwork.

Lew

[Lew Hodgett]

To elaborate on my comment to Lew...... A quote should already include a percentage for contingencies. A stain change.... a reputation is worth more than those few bucks you can maybe squeeze out of client. Industrial business is a different story.

------------------------------- My comments reflect my exposure to the industrial/government markets.

Resi is a different world.

Remember the $700 toilet deat?

Lew

[-MIKE-]

Best answer. The bottom line is, on 20 grand, be glad it's only $750.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a fan is added later.

[-MIKE-]

If the fee is in the contract, there is no argument. It could be a legitimate fee to cover the costs of making all the changes, administratively, that a corporation has to do when they become a corporation, just to cover their butts. Or it could be that *plus* some just to keep clients from constantly making changes they consider to be "no big deal."

[Lew Hodgett]

----------------------- What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew

[RicodJour]

A customer requested change is not a contingency item. It is an extra.

The OP is requesting a change, we have no idea what is involved in the change, but there is general agreement that a $750 charge for a couple of cabinets worth of changed stain is a "Whatchya talking about, Willis?!" Q&A session with the contractor.

To the OP, please post the contractor's explanation of the seemingly high charge when you get it.

R

[Robatoy]

Use ceiling scissors to cut a path for the wires later?

Might as well run some cat5 for special effects lighting later.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Admittedly, I've been assuming that before he added another ceiling fan, there was already a plan place for a box in that same position, to service a light. In this case, the wiring would be the same. If not, then the $350 charge makes some sense.

[FrozenNorth]

Also had all lighting/fans been purchased? The guy needs to return an existing fixture and pick up a fan, that costs money, in addition to paperwork, time for the client to pick out the fan they want assuming they aren't all the same or worst case a special order style. Too many questions.

[Mike Marlow]

This might have already been said - and I confess I have not been really following this thread... I have experienced (too many times), when after a price and a scope of work has been agreed upon, the "can you just"'s start happening. You know - what is called scope creep. I've seen it in my professional life and I've seen it in my side jobs. The consumer is seldom aware of the real costs to this little extra and that little extra, since to their uneducated eye, it looks like a simple enough little add-on. After a fashion, you decide you don't want to deal with these things, so you come up with some sort of scheme that makes it more difficult for scope creep to happen. Adding prohibitive costs is certainly one very valid way of addressing this. What's amazing is that it's easy to see people who are on the receiving end of this complain about it, while at the same time, they will often be the advocate of it when they are speaking from the supplier's side of the story.

What people often forget is that it is not alway about the real work involved. It's often about the impact to schedules. A business will schedule work out in advance of the work at hand. Start adding extras to the work at hand and very quickly, you can't start the scheduled work behind it on time. Now you've got a problem. You have to make the problems pay for themselves.

[-MIKE-]

On a tangent...

Does anyone else have "I don't want this job" pricing? When I get someone or something which I foresee as having way too high a

*PITA factor, I will often just set the price so high that I figure they'll either balk or if they accept it, I'm making so much it's worth it to put up with all the extra crap involved.

(*pain in the ass)

[RicodJour]

Right. I call them wallyas..."Wallya at it, why don't we put an arched transom over that door?"

I suppose if someone commonly did pretty straightforward projects, where the extras didn't amount to a large percentage, then, sure, not treating extras as a profit centre and waiving administrative fees is not a big deal. I pick my own charities, and a paying customer is not one of them. I don't gouge. On occasion I will waive a fee and the owner appreciates the courtesy.

I've had projects where the kitchen remodeling contract price was double the original ballpark estimate, the final contract work was again doubled with extras, and _that_ was doubled with the other stuff I did on the house. Am I supposed to write up a new contract for an extra, regardless of the size of the extra or the number of them? That makes no sense at all. My contract is complete and there's no reason to add another one. It would just muddy the water. Of course extras are _a_ profit center, but, as they are extras they can't be _the_ profit centaur, only another one.

I'm just curious what the OP's contractor's justification is. I'm betting it's half real and half greed.

R

[Swingman]

"Shears", Rob! ferrcrisssakes, you can't charge enough for "scissors"!!

[Mike Marlow]

Sure they could, but that would be outside of the scope of this discussion. That would be a wiring spec.

[Mike Marlow]

The wiring would not be the same.