Cheap electric switches and outlets

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wrote:

It certainly is common where basements aren't necessary. My Alabama house is on a slab. Basements are virtually unheard of. Of all the houses we looked at (50+) only one had a basement. I only looked at houses with basements, this time.

It makes the job 10x worse. It's not going to be done.

Sure, but they are rare in places. ...and getting more rare everywhere as people look for more living space.

Then make us all happy.
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On 5/23/2012 1:56 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Allot of insurance companies will not insure or will charge higher rates if your home still has K&T wirings
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wrote:

We keep hearing that, here, but no one has been able to come up with a plausible citation.
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even when first hand reports are posted here by multiple other people some deny k&T is a issue.'
so what about income properties tv show? they talk about it in detail when its found. usually the old owner covered it up to get the home sold...
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You really need to learn how to read.

You lefties do believe everything you see on the TeeVee.
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As long as the wiring is in good condition, there is nothing inherently unsafe about Knob and Tube wiring. However, the knob and tube wiring I have seen had old cloth based insulation that had degraded leaving many parts of the wiring bare and exposed. This is both a shock and fire hazard. In addition, Knob and tube wiring is not rated for use under insulation. It can overheat and cause a fire.

My in-laws had difficulty getting home insurance, and paid higher rates until we upgraded the electrical system. I think most of that was due to the old rusted fuse panels that kept blowing, recepticles mounted without boxes, and exposed K&T wiring that had lost it's insulation. The entire system was in dangerously poor condition.
Anthony
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wrote:

Evern notice that these things are always FOAF, never any credible first hand experience? How would the insurance company know anything about how often fuses blew or how much rust was on the panel? That said, anyone with a rusty fuse panel is a moron. Actually, less than a moron; even a moron knows that electricity and water don't mix.
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As Clare mentioned, based on the age of the house (100 years old), the insurance company required an on-site inspection before they would insure the home. We had to have it reinspected after we upgraded the electrical system to qualify for the lower rates.

Nothing lasts forever. Even in dry conditions, moisture in the air will cause metal to oxidize and rust over time.
Anthony
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wrote:

Must be a Canuckistan thing.

Shouldn't rust a painted box enough to cause problems unless there is liquid water around. That's just dumb.
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Washington State

Rust and corrosion were just one symptom of an overall aging electrical system. Crumbling insulation on the wiring, old outlets that had worn out, burnt wiring around lighting fixtures, overloaded circuits, etc. all contributed to the unsafe conditions. My in-laws are older seniors in poor health on a fixed income. They couldn't afford to have it fixed and didn't have the skills or physical ability to do it themselves. So it continued to deteriorate over many years (they have lived in the house over 50 years).
Anthony
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On Sun, 27 May 2012 15:37:18 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband

knob and tube wiring are EXTREMELY hard to insure in the Ontario Canada market. They require a "condition" inspection - and not too many K&T wired houses will "meet condition" enough for an inspector to sign off. A bit of K&T in lighting circuits only will often pass if it is the "later" K&T that was installed with boxes and was NOT part of a "ring" wiring topology. "Ring" wiring was not common - and was virtually history by the early teens (1910-1915), but was found in quite a few "early" homes.
K&T to outlets is virtually impossib;le to get a pass on, regardless of condition.
Same situation exists with aluminum wiring. To write a new policy with aluminum wiring requires a "condition inspection" - and either pigtailed to copper or switched over to co-alr wiring devices to pass.
60 amp or smaller main service panels are also virtually un-insurable. Fuse panels are not a problem (yet) but are part of the "condition" inspection.
Galvanized water pipe and cast iron sewer pipes are another red flag - getting them insured is getting harder every day.
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Many safety systems (seatbelts, tamper resistant outlets, etc.) were available long before the government required their use. In most cases, people choose not to spend the extra money on them if they don't have to. The average consumer is more likely to upgrade to leather seats or a better stereo then to pay for better safety features.
Anthony
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wrote:

Precisely the point. You leftist busybodies have to force people to do what *you* want them to do, rather than let them decide for themselves what's important. You just *have* to control others' lives to have any meaning in yours.
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I've had "builder grade" receps stop holding a plug securely after about 30 years or so...
that said I use spec grade for everything that I can except for emergency repairs when I'm scrounging in the junk box because a) spec grade from the supply house is about the same price as builder grade from Home Despot and b) as someone else correctly noted, the labor is the largest part of the job, even if it takes me 10 minutes to replace a switch or recep, that costs more than the $2 for the device. Additionally if the spec grade ones are the "back wire" type they can actually save on labor vs. looping the wires under the screw terminals as they will accept a straight wire under the terminal. (not the same as "back stab," I'm referring to the ones where the screw terminals have the little square captive washers under them to securely hold the wire.)
nate
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On Fri, 18 May 2012 14:12:19 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband

What state requires this? I can buy the plain old common ones by the case where I live. Not to mention that I dont have kids and sure dont want to have to hassle with some stupid cover. I'd probably bust them off if I had to.
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It is in the National Electrical Code (NEC), meaning all states that follow the NEC. Here's one explanation:
http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?categoryID08&itemID6117

Same here. I'm always annoyed when stores continue to sell things that don't meet codes, especially codes that have been around for years.
I bought a couple packs of the common outlets, not knowing the codes had changed. Then the inspector notified me of the new code requirement, which meant I had to buy additional packs of the tamper resistant outlets and replace them all. Not a big deal, but I could have saved a lot of time and money if the stores made the compliant outlets more visible.

There's no "cover" really, they just have little shutters inside the slots the plug goes into. Unless you get down and look for the shutter in the slots, you would never know the difference between the outlets.
My in-laws are in their 70's, so I was worried the tamper resistant outlets would affect how things get plugged in. Thankfully, I couldn't detect any difference when plugging things in.
We don't have small kids either, but guests sometimes do. Anyone who has ever had kids knows you only need to turn your back for a few seconds for kids to do something stupid. :)
Anthony
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On 05/20/2012 01:25 AM, snipped-for-privacy@toyotamail.com wrote:

Anyone who's adopted the 2008 version of the NEC - probably most jurisdictions by now.
nate
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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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ransley wrote:

Or fifty dollars for the inspector.
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Per outlet?
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Well, no. I think fifty dollars is for everything.
I could be wrong. We don't HAVE inspectors in my town.
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