main reason he wants to change anything is because there are 240V between these two connections with the block pulled. He was working on the plumbing to the water heater and got shocked (I forget the details, but if he joins in he can let us know)
I have also made him very aware of having to bring everything up to code. He is the kind of guy that does things right so I imagine everything will be replaced, but asked me to consider changing the panel.
Yeah, it is hard for me to tell one size from another in real life. The photos are just not going to do it. Hopefully we will be able to tell when we have something side by side. He may bring a few sizes to be sure.
The "modified" box will NOT be UL or CSA approved, nor will the guts you install in that modified box. You MAY be able to find a breaker box that "just fits" inside the old box - which WOULD be a UL or CSA listed device
There is nothing technically wrong with fuses, however from a practical perspective they will cost you more on insurance, particularly on a rental property. The
You are right that when replacing the guts the result is a panel that is not listed. That is actually also true if you put new guts in a box the same size the guts came out of.
From what gfretwell said the CH panel guts he talks about are listed for installation into an existing box.
Another consideration for just replacing the guts is whether the existing SE cable service wires are long enough to reach the lugs on the new panel.
Looking at that photo, it's a little hard to say with out having the box in front of me and a tester in hand, but it appears he must be coming directly off the mains. They mains connectors appear to be in the CENTER of the box. The water heater should be on the other sides of that pull out, this is my guess. The way it is now, that water heater has no fuses at all ***DANGEROUS***. He's lucky he didn't get killed. Now, if you take a look at that top right pullout, there are no wires going to it. THAT's the one that should be used for the water heater and put 30A cartridge fuses in it.
One other thing. Look at all those 30A plug fuses. Assuming those are for the lighting and outlets, they should NOT be 30A. They should be 15A or 20A depending on the wire. #14 = 15A #12 = 20A. Another dangerous situation. It's not uncommon though. It's a major cause of electrical fires because many people did it. If they made 100A plug fuses, people would use them.
That pull out that appears to be incorrectly wired now, must be for some other 220 device in the house. Possibly an Air Conditioner, or a sub feed to a garage or something else. It's not likely an electric range, because the wires are too thin.
** Just so you understand how that panel works: All of the upper pullouts are "mains" One of them feeds the bank of plug fuses. When he was working on the water heater, he undoubtedly pulled the wrong main
I don't know how all of those fuses are connected, but the owner said he pulled every single fuse when he was shocked while working on the water heater and it was still hot. The only one I checked was the one for the water heater but as you can see from the picture there is no fuse protection for the water heater. The block is out but those two terminals are hot and connected to the water heater.
**Where you drew those two red lines, if that is where the water heater was connected, that appears to be the line side of the fuse block, so that would be hot regardless of fuses.
remember fuse boxes are OLD, andnot only too small amp wise, but lack proper grounding, ARC FAULT and GFCIs, and worse most people tend to overfuse, hey the 15 amp one blew, try a 20, oh it blew a 30 should do it:( the main service cable may be in poor shape too
Plus you may have trouble getting homeowners insurance, or pay extra, because of fuses.
If you happen to have K&T just forget it. future resale impossible, insurance near so.
I sent him the link to this thread yesterday. Although he has an email address, I am don't think he web surfs every waking hour like I do.
He is trying to get the house ready to rent. He wants a safe, inexpensive fix. I am not sure what to tell him. I am getting a book from the library to show him what the current requirements for a house are.
As RBM indicated, there shouldn't be. In addition to not being able to turn the wires off, the wires have absolutely no protection. If wired correctly, downstream from fuses, the box may (or may not) be functional for future use.
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