OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.

[harry]

Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago.

.

[dpb]

On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote: ...

Requires signup; sorry...no will do.

[RonB]

The American car makers started screwing themselves, as well as customers, during the early 70's through the 80's and beyond. The effect of that will probably linger, to some extent, until a current generation dies off. They built pretty descent equipment up until

71, then they stared a process of alienating customers. List of reasons for us: 1) '73 Vega GT (new). Motor Trend car of the year. During the 12 months we owned it is spent about three months in the shop, including one 6 week stay, on stands, waiting for rear axle parts. We finally got the local GM zone office to arrange a good price swap for a... 2) '74 Olds Cutlass (new). Rust started appearing around the opera windows in about six months. GM repaired. In less than a year rust appeared around fender wells, then cowling, then around inside truck frame. When we got rid if in after three years the trunk latch was held in place with sheet metal screws in bondo. 3) Neighbor's Chevrolet Chevette. Some dealers actually admitted it was intended to be a 50,0000 mile disposable "economy" car. 4) Our first Volvo was a '74purchased in '77 with about 35,000 miles. We ran the odometer up to about 160,000 and turned it over to our daughter for college car. Later sold it with more than 200K miles and the lady who bought it drove it for quite some time. One other Volvo provided similar service - then their price rose out of our reach (and they had a period of quality lapses). 5) '86 Blazer - Kind of a fun vehicle and we did get about 130,000 miles on it, at great expense: four water pumps, two radiators, one steering sector, one expensive head repair. The truck overheated pulling a pretty small pop up trailer at anything above sea level. 5) Two Honda's. One ours, one daughter's. Both bought used and combined mileage when sold pushing 300,000 miles (that we put on them). 6) '94 Chrysler New Yorker bought in '95. This was a good faith attempt to get back into the domestic car market and be patriotic again. The car was a low mileage executive car that we knew as owned by the dealership owner and it was loaded. Leather, premium sound system, the works. The car was a dream to drive. However, two-tone paint beneath door trim started to fall off within a year (not peel, fall off). Window seals leaked and eventually fell off. The dealership had no luck in getting them adjusted properly. Trunk lid would open unexpectedly while driving down the road. Electrical problems. Then, one day I noticed a puff of smoke when I started it and took it to my mechanic. At 62,000 miles he told me the V6 had one bad cylinder and another with marginal compression. He strongly advised unloading it. 7) '02 Chevy 3500HD,8.1L (new). Crapped-out a drive shaft at about 3,000 miles. New rear end shortly thereafter. At about 30,000 miles it started using oil erratically (anywhere from 1,500 mpq to 200 mpq). Chevy did a band-aid fix and sent us on the way with no other fix available. It soon resumed oil consumption problem.

8) Current '99 Camry (New) with 166,000 miles. Other than a window motor and occasional "check engine" light and normal maintenance (brakes, shocks, etc) it has been perfect.

Granted, we have owned two other pickups, besides the 8.1 L, that have been OK. Our current '06 Chevy 3500HD Duramax has been a pretty good vehicle. We are considering replacing the Camry with a new or new car, and I was starting to soften up again. Friends have a new Impala and it seems like a nice care of good quality. Ownership would be easier because the nearest Toyota and Nissan dealers are 40-60 miles away. We have two GM dealers within 15-30 minutes. BUT -- my wife's opinion is "hell no". Other than the pickups, every domestic car we have owned since early 1970's has been a POS - we can drive the extra miles if we have to to avoid another screwing.

And THIS is the generation problem I mentioned above. In spite of knowing the newer domestics are probably a lot better. My memory is almost as good has her's

RonB

[Ed Pawlowski]

worked OK for me.

[Ralph Mowery]

I did not mention the one I inherited when my dad passed away. It was a

2000 Ford that he bought new. The ignition switch went out in about a year. They repaired it by replacing all the locks. Then a week later the driver door would not open. They repaired that. It got to where it would not run right and after two trips to the Ford dealer, it was traded for a new 2002 Camry.

Guess that was only 10 years ago.

[krw]

Insignificant problem. How about those Japanese brakes?

...and your point?

[dpb]

On 5/30/2011 5:47 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

Folks keep saying that, but doesn't match my experience.

'55 Ford -- >100k; suffered badly when the bull got out and tried to run it over...

'60 Rambler - 80k; Dad bought it w/o asking for replacement of the Ford; was a nice little car; but not cool enough so when could scrape up enough cash got '63 Chevy Impala 2D HT; 150k running well when sold for first (and only from showroom) new car after first job '69 Charger -- vroom, vroom! need I say more? Followed by '72 Buick Centurion in midst of gas crisis it was a bargain but by then the Charger was outgrown as third young'un arrived '78 Olds 88 '84 Olds 88 (the only one of the lot w/ any major problem; I blame the Quaker State oil not the car though for an early rod failure from loss of lube. Rebuilt the engine and it ran for another 150k thru two kids '88 Olds 88 (yeah, had a relationship w/ Olds dealer in Oak Ridge by then :) was eventually willed to elder daughter who put over 220k on it '99 Chrysler 300M -- my "senior crisis" retirement present--100k when traded it on '10 Buick Enclave AWD only 'cuz when moved to the farm w/ the dirt roads the 300M touring suspension was so hard shake teeth out altho great on highway and was low so not at all a good "mud" car. The Enclave w/ 19" rims and AWD works well on both counts (altho I'd surely like to test it on mud far more frequently than have for the last 18 months).

Oh, doesn't include wife's LeSabres since we came back to KS.

Or, the '72 Chevy 1/2T that gave to good friend in TN who still using it in his plumbing business. I gave it a new cam at 120k around '90 or so.

On farm, still use the '58 Chevy C60 altho it's not the frontline truck any longer, it's been surpassed by tractor/trailer simply owing to size any more but it's never had a valve cover off as yet.

All in all, in roughly 50 years of 'merican vehicles, I've not had one I'd classify as a poor choice or a maintenance problem.

--

[Larry Fishel]

I'm not a big fan of most American cars and have nothing against Japanese cars, but this argument seems pretty silly. With minor exceptions, people don't keep economy cars as antiques. When was the last time you saw a '70s Honda? Mine was a decent enough car, but that doesn't mean I'm going to keep it in the garage for 30 years and take it to classic car shows...

[Congoleum Breckenridge]

I hope they're more reliable than 60's - 70's British Cars!

[Congoleum Breckenridge]

That's because they're restored and pampered. They're not daily drivers, and drive in snow.

[krw]

Wow! Ya THINK?!

[krw]

Didn't keep a lot of them very long? The Detroits of the '70s through to at least the mid-'80s were serious buckets of bolts. As I said, I drove my '78 Granada 14 years and then gave it to someone who needed transportation, but that was a rarity. The '74 Rustang pretty much tanged away in three years (though the head-on with the 3/4T w/snow plow didn't help it either). That was more the norm. Since many have been pretty good, some giving the Japanese a real run.

[bob haller]

my 1990 caravan made its last trip at about 450,000 miles. it was a real workhorse. At 120K I got a lifetime AAMCO transmission rebuild. 7 or 8 transmissions later I finally let it retire.

[Larry W]

You really should learn to take better care of your vehicles.

[Larry W]

Don't see too many Honda AN600s, Toyota Crowns or 1200s, Datsun 510s or B210s either. Damn few VW Beetles still running for that matter, too, but I still see Dodge Darts, Plymouth Valiants, and the occasional Chevy 2/Nova or Ford Falcon on the road.

[RonB]

\

Simca. Forgot about that one. We had a Simca (don't remember year) for a year or two. It was fun to drive and hell to work on because parts were hard to find. Constantly rebuilding the clutch hydraulics but aftermarket kits were available. Then came the day when I had to replace a starter. Remove, bumper, bumper pan, radiator, and assorted stuff. That was where the fun was overshadowed by desire to try another toy car.

RonB

[dpb]

On 5/30/2011 8:27 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

Well, let's see...'55 Ford had an encounter w/ the bull that pretty well put it out of commission. Hardly the car's fault. :) It was >5yo at the time. The Rambler was a choice for a kid looking for a little cooler ride. The Impala >6 w/ me; it was still on the streets in Lynchburg when we left about 9 years later; I'd see it fairly frequently. The Charger which I let go purely because of the limited room w/ kids; everything else was quite a spell...

77 Olds was >15 when if finally was retired by second son 84 Olds is still on the road part time w/ a friend in TN 88 Olds was also about 15; don't recall when elder daughter finally traded it but it was >200k by quite a sizable number. 72 1/2T is now almost 30 and still in service as work truck.

That's pretty decent longevity overall, imo...

--

[krw]

The '77 olds was an older design. They weren't awful, though they did have quality problems too. Most of the '70s was lost on Detroit.

'84ish was when Detroit was finally waking up. Though they were still rustbuckets. Inbetween was a pile of crap.

[Jim Yanik]

Congoleum Breckenridge wrote in news:is1d1f$vs3$ [e-mail]:

I owned a Triumph Herald and an English Ford Cortina GT. the Cortina was a great car,very fun to drive. It did have a Lucas generator that crapped out while on a trip from Buffalo to Boston,had to spend the night in a motel. (and was actually AWOL,but my boss covered for me!...)

[Country]

My Father-in-law bought one of those late 1970's Olds 98 Diesel, I forget the exact year of the thing. That car spent a lot of time on the end of a tow truck headed for the dealer.

-C-