CFL bulbs -- how bright for how long.

My attention has just been drawn to the following document:
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/NLPIP/PDF/VIEW/SR_SB_CFL.pdf
Note that although the original report is older, this .PDF includes supplements through 2005.
This seems to show that Osram/Sylvania have the shortest life and a significant deterioration in light output during that short life,
GE appear to be the best. I think they are available at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club.
Perce
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In terms of CFL technology, 2005 is almost pre-historic. Most new bulbs are quite nice. I hated and refused to use them years ago but like the bright white of some now.
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On 01/17/09 06:18 pm Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Probably true that a lot has changed since 2005. But most of the CFLs I've bought have been Sylvania, and they haven't lasted particularly long. Perhaps that's a Sylvania thing: I had some Sylvania incandescents that popped as soon as I switched on and at least on more out of the same pack that lasted only a couple of days.
I have just bought some "Lights of America" brand 45-watt-equivalent LED bulbs (power consumption only 3.5W) intended for use in accent lights: a nice white light and no warm-up delay.
Perce
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:03:45 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

Where did you buy those LED lights? Do they screw into a standard socket? I have horses in a barn and have a 10watt CFL (equal to 40W) security light which is on all the time (so the horses can see). I guess 240W per day is not too bad on the electric bill, but the CFLs get very dim in cold weather, and when our recent cold spell dropped to MINUS 39F, it was so dim I could only see a dull glow, and then it burned out. I replaced it, and it was so dim I could not see anything. I finally replaced it with a smaller incandescent.
I'd like to cut down power usage, as well as eliminating this dimming problem in the cold. Besides that, I was told NOT to use a light sensor to shut off the power during the day (on a CFL), because when they turn on and off, they are not putting out full power for a minute or two (like a dimmer), and that will destroy a CFL quickly. I'm sure a LED would not be affected by that, so I can save even more power.
Using 10W CFLs 24/7 for one year is 87,600 watts. If those LEDs use 3.5 W and I could put on a sensor, so it would only be on about 12 hours per day (average), that would only be 15,330 watts per year. Quite a savings.
Jim
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Jimw wrote:

CFLs do generate SOME heat.
You might try enclosing the bulb in a clear glass fixture thereby trapping some of the generated heat and increasing the light output.
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wrote:

Good suggestion, and I also wonder if using one of those shrouded CFLs designed to be used in a canister or hi-hat application would last longer as opposed to the ones that have the tubes exposed.
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I really cannot see how you could justify the bulb change based on cost. At $0.15/kWh the 87600 watt hours you use in a year only costs about $13.00. Changing to the LED's would lower this to about $2.30. Hardly worth a trip to the store.
EJ in NJ
Jimw wrote:

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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:08:18 -0500, Ernie Willson

Based entirely on cost of energy, you are right, even though all these things do add up. But based on the poor performance in cold weather, it's definately worth changing. Plus, right now, I am using an incandescent bulb and that is costing more. It's just too cold to get any light out of the CFL. Also, I have had to replace this bulb about once a year. I know they are only $5 or less, but if a LED costs $10 or even $20, I know they last almost forever. Actually, I bought a string of white LED Christmas lights after christmas for less than half price. I was wondering how much light that would produce. It's not handy, but I think that has about 30 LEDs and said it used about 3 watts. I have not yet tried it, it's been too cold to piss around outdoors. I figured I'd find some use for it, for the couple bucks it cost.

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On 01/18/09 03:36 am Jimw wrote:

Sam's Club.
Perce
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Lights of America products are typically poorly engineered junk. Also beware of cheap LED lights. They will fade within a few hundred hours of use. These are the type made from clusters of those 5mm indicatoer style LEDs. The bulbs are usually under $25. The only good LED bulbs are expensive and use high power LEDs, like the Cree XR-E emitter.
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On 01/18/09 09:44 am JohnR66 wrote:

That 2005 supplement shows Lights of America CFLs outlasting Sylvania.
Why should small LEDs fade significantly in this configuration if they don't fade as indicator lights?
Perce
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My experience with Lights of America (though mostly not buying much from them since 2002 due to disappointments) is early failure.

White low power LEDs have low usage as indicator lights, and they are likely to run into fading issues there unless seriously underpowered. Keep in mind that most modern white LEDs are plenty bright enough for use as indicator lights at 3-4 milliamps, 15-20% of the 20 milliamps that most "low power" LEDs have their specified performance dependent on. Keep in mind how glaringly bright most modern white low power LEDs are at 20 mA - they will put spots in your eyes!
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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JohnR66 wrote:

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"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

I picked up a pack of those LED lamps to fiddle with. Some notes:
- The light is not "nice white", it is notably bluish like most "white" LEDs.
- The color temp is not consistent between lamps, particularly if they have had different run times.
- LEDs produce less lumens per Watt than CFLs, so they are less efficient. Being directional they can allow a lower Wattage to be used for task lighting however.
- Those particular lamps don't go off when you turn them off, they continue to produce very low level light for several minutes.
I did a comparison in a wall wash type application between those LED lamps, a 14W CFL and a 50W encapsulated halogen and the CFL won for best overall results. The LED lamps are still interesting to fiddle with.
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lets see I have a CFL in my pole lamp controlled by a lamp sensor and timer. its off from midnite to 6AM on any other time its dark enough, occasionally tripsa on in mid day during a storm.
this CFL dies on average once a year, wierdly when I used incandescent bulbs they died more often but were a lot cheaper.
but CFL failure doesnt appear to take out the light sensor:) they are expensive.
so the CFL is affordable, by saving bucks on energy and lamp sensors.
bought a LED night light, way too blue, its nifty but not ready for prime time:(
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:38:20 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Yes, I know the white ones are a bluish tint. I got some of those headlamps and flashlights.
One thing I always wonder, I noticed that most of the Christmas LEDs have a colored shell. I know a LED can create red, for example, because I have seen clear shells that are red, or green, or whatever. But I wonder if these colored ones with colored shells are not just white and the shell makes the color?
Yes, I have considered a timer rather than a sensor. I'd have to change the settings regularly. Not that big of a deal, but at the same time I know timer motors consume energy too, so it might not be worth it.
Jim
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I have done some experimenting with LED lighting and found they are most useful for when they reall only have to be seen instead of illuminating any particular area. I am using some for stairwell lights and they work great for that. I was very disapponted in the counter top lamps I installed. The counter top lamps do make decent night lights so I kept them and added some flourescent work lights beneath the kitchen cabinets. A florescent fixture that also contains some LEDs may be interesting.
Jimmie
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The comparitive test if it is one is old, www.popmechanicsmag.com consumers reports, are more up to date. I use HD with a 7 yr warranty and color is tops. Try HD Invision brand they last in commercial use. Soft White is like incandesant
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Just a link I found that seems it might be helpful.
http://www.earthled.com/index.html
I myself am leaning towards these light bulbs.
Supposed to be no hazardous waste as well.
Nickodemos
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