Can you use white for one leg of 240V circuit?

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the current used by a timer motor is more then enough to kill.
Mark
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On 5/2/2011 9:25 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

For many years the NEC allowed the neutral of an SE cable to also be used as a ground for ranges and dryers. It never allowed the ground of a 2 wire Romex to also be used as a neutral. Another requirement was the SE cable had to originate at the service panel (not a subpanel).
============================If a 2 wire Romex is used for a 240V circuit the white MUST be remarked at both ends.
--
bud--

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wrote:

Thank you Bud, finally someone that actually knows the code.
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On 5/2/2011 9:11 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

No, it was _NOT_ a Code violation until NEC was changed to make it such.
I don't know which version did make the change; the latest reference at hand is based on NEC 1984; 3-wire (as in two leads and a ground) was compliant at the time. NEC Sec 220-18 at the time required minimum 10-ga and grounding the case to the neutral was acceptable.
And, at that time, NEC 338-3(b) allowed that for ranges, ovens, cooktops and clothes dryers the cable may have bare neutral that served as both the neutral and the equipment grounding connector. The one restriction on that was that it had to be a single, direct run from the equipment; no branches allowed. This was/is virtually always the case in single residential installations.
I'd venture it was mid-90s or thereabouts the reqm't for 4-conductors became codified; as said I don't have a listing of changes and when were made and I'm not going to go look for it. I am certain (as I just looked it up) that it was within Code thru 1984 as outlined above.
--
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OK lets look it up together.
Start in 250-60(b) where you get the permission to use the "GROUNDED" conductor. (That is the neutral). 250-60(c) further says that grounded conductor "is insulated" unless it is SE cable originating at the service equipment.
The practical result of that is that you will be using 10-3 if you use Romex and usually that will turn out being 10-3/wg. The ground wire was either cut off or terminated in the box.
The change to 4 wire was 1996
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On 5/2/2011 12:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

Not the pertinent section.
As noted, 338-3(b) is the subject paragraph allowing the previous practice that was modified.

Seems about right; that's pretty close to "mid-90s". :)
--
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On 5/2/2011 5:24 PM, RBM wrote: ...

Could be; I don't have a copy...
Doesn't really matter; the old rules are no longer in effect but did seem worthy to correct the idea that somehow all those earlier installations were not Code-compliant at the time and only were allowed by (essentially) dishonest inspections passing violations.
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On 5/2/2011 6:22 PM, RBM wrote:

Roger...wasn't clear on the SE rating earlier, thanks for pointing it out....hmmm...looking at earlier posting I see the way I paraphrased wasn't really good in indicating that the run does have to be service cable SE-rated as well as the no branching rule--I was focused on the bare connector part too much from wording earlier.
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issue:
Article 250-60 in the 1993 code said that the frames of ranges and clothes dryers "shall be permitted to be grounded to the GROUNDED CIRCUIT CONDUCTOR if all of the conditions indicated in (a) through (d) below are met." Condition (c) states that "The grounded conductor is insulated; or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service equipment."
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338 only applies to SE cable. We already determined SE cable was an exception to the insulated grounded conductor rule. It does not allow 10-2 romex.
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On 5/2/2011 6:27 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That's so; see other response. That's the way the uninsulated connector could be used. _IF_ the installation used non-SE rated, that indeed would have been a violation.
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On May 2, 12:45pm, "Stormin Mormon"

glegroups.com...
Every time I have bought a dryer it did not come with a cord. If the old dryer was broken, usually was, I used the cord from it. Though I tend to buy basic no frills appliances so maybe when you spend more you get a cord :-)
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On Mon, 2 May 2011 10:07:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

message
I bought a dryer two years ago at Sears. It too did not come with a cord. If you bought a dryer over a set amount, you get the delivery free. I told the sales guy that I had an existing dryer. I would like to have the delivery guys remove the old dryer, I would change the cord, they could then set the new dryer and haul the old one away.
Since the delivery guys only subbed for Sears, the sales guy gave me a cord at the store for free. He said that he did not want any problems with the delivery guys having to wait for me to change the cord. I think the cord would have been around 30 bucks.
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On Mon, 2 May 2011 12:45:19 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Dryers usually do not come with a power cord. It is an extra charge item you have to specify and purchase. The installer will have both kinds on the truck if you pay for the install
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The last two power supplies I bought for computer builds did not come with power cords either.
It should be criminal that cell phones still use proprietary chargers and cables.
On Mon, 2 May 2011 14:15:18 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

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On 5/2/2011 2:26 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

Cell phones built the last 2 years have standardize on micro-usb plugs. We have three newer cell phones in our home, they are all micro-usb and can all use the same charger.
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Metspitzer wrote:
[snip]

The 2 that I bought recently (Motorola and LG), as well as the MiFi device all have micro-USB connectors (and will work with the same chargers, both home and auto).
As to the electric dryers, I bought one in 1991 and another in 2007. Neither came with a cord.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us
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On Sun, 1 May 2011 17:40:09 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

A white wire can NEVER be used as a hot wire, and you have clearly and intentionally violated the law, and deserve prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.
Now that you have admitted your guilt to this criminal activity, the building inspectors will trace your internet service, come to this home, and arrest all occupants, along with condemning the home. You're in really big trouble. Don't be surprised if you find yourself looking down the barrel of several powerful firearms, held by U.S. Navy Seals, and if you resist arrest, they will not hesitate to shoot and kill you, just like Osama Bin Laden. You are a threat to society and must be prosecuted or eliminated.
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