BEWARE ZILLER ELECTRIC!!

[Gym Bob]

I was burned by SC Solar from South Carolina on a similiar issue. They sold me insurance (phoney) on the product also and the shipping carrier does not offer insurance as an option. Then I was convinced to ship the damaged panel back for credit and the owner then sold all his stock to another owner and won't talk about it. Now I am out the cost of returning it and the cost of the panel, not to mention the taxes coming into Canada. I have no proof of returning it for the tax credit either.

Yup SC Solar ripped me off for a broken solar panel. For all I know it was shipped that way.

Big lesson, open the packages, if necessary and mark it on the paperwork, at the point of first touching it.

[dpb]

...

Amen to the latter, but virtually always a motor freight delivery form states "received in good condition" or similar so unless you make notations to the contrary.

[Neon John]

As a trucker, maybe I can add some info to this.

If this was delivered by motor freight carrier (not UPS, etc), then the freight carrier's only liability is to deliver an intact package, that is, the outer package/wrapping/crate is undamaged. If there is no damage to the outer package then they have no liability. Internal damage is between the shipper and the consignee (the customer).

I almost never do LTL (less than truckload, what the drivers that drop crates off at your back door do) but I've been to class on the procedures. I do not have to wait around for the consignee to inspect the internals of the shipment. In fact, I'm told not to. If the consignee refuses to sign for the shipment, I simply write on the bill of lading "signature refused" and send the same message on the Qualcomm (the satellite system most trucks have nowadays).

Though the industry has been partially deregulated, many regulations remain. According to my company, the above relationship is one of the regulated areas so it will be the same with any motor freight carrier. Package services like UPS and Fedex fall under different rules.

Precisely. Even if he opened the crate on the spot, as long as the outside isn't damaged, it's not the carrier's problem.

I suspect that the root of this is that Nate got on the phone and was an officious prick and the guy at Ziller told him to FO. His whiny all-caps subject line says loads. Speaking as a businessman, we try not to ever have to tell a customer to FO but sometimes we run into someone who is so unreasonable that it's better to cut bait and take the loss.

John

[RicodJour]

Thanks for the perspective from the other side of the lift gate, John. It sounds as if each particular trucking company has some latitude in how they handle delivery. In my experience I've never had a trucker refuse to wait and split without getting a signature. I assumed that they couldn't do that. Then again, I've never refused to sign unless I found. You make it sound cut and dried about determining who is responsible for the damage based on the exterior of the package. Maybe it is, but I've had times where it was unclear whether the package got damaged and then the contents, and other times the contents were packed poorly and damaged the packaging. That must be a frustrating experience - attempting to deliver a damaged shipment that you _know_ is going to be refused. I always considered the signature a bit of a formality anyway, because no identification is required and the signatures are frequently scrawled, so I guess that would take some of the starch out of the formality.

Maybe I never had a guy leave without a signature because I respect the time pressure the driver (or anyone working for a living) is under, so I hustle to make it a quick but thorough inspection. If I have to pop open a crate, I won't let the driver's schedule push me to accept something that I shouldn't. It's my money on the line and I have far more to lose than a few minutes of the driver's time. If I feel it took me longer to inspect than it should have I'll drop some cash on the driver - and I've never gotten anything other than a thank you.

R

[Windsun]

It was your responsibility to check for damage upon delivery. You apparently did not do that.

[Kelly Myers]

Hello All,

My name is Kelly Myers, and I am the person who spoke with "Nate" on the telephone yesterday. We are a very customer friendly company, and most of our sales are from word of mouth advertising.

Sometimes, damage occurs from freight, or damage can occur from sitting in your yard. That is why I tried to explain to you on the phone (before you hung up on me) that we would have to have an independant adjustor come out and see if it was freight damage. If you still want me to arrange that, I would be more then happy to, and please feel free to call.

Just like I explained to you on the phone, I would be more then happy to do all of that, including filing a claim, except it might take a couple weeks, and it didn't fit your immediate needs. On all of our BOL (bill of ladings) we type out that you must inspect before delivery, and we also attach GIANT green stickers stating to PLEASE inspect prior to signing. Once you sign that bill, it is releasing the carrier of liability.

Since that happened, we need to file a concealed damage claim, where it usually ends up splitting the cost between me (Ziller Electric) and the carrier. If you would of listened to my explanation, you would of fully understood that this would be covered fully, and the small dented piece of metal would of been replaced if the independant freight inspector would of found that the damage was caused prior to delivery to your house.

Some companies wash their hands of problems after their product leaves the door, but we do 110% to keep our customers happy throughout the ownership of their generators. I was sent a link to this page today from a prior customer who couldn't believe what he was reading, because he had a totally opposite experience.

So if you choose to have me take care of this generator, and want me to start a claim (like I offered yesterday) please feel free to call me, and I will take the steps to get the ball rolling.

Like I said above, we give 110% to keep our customers happy, but as a customer, you have to work with us. The generator was in your possesion for almost 3 weeks, and I hope you understand the need for an independant freight inspector

Thank You,

Kelly Myers ZillerElectric.com

1-888-2-ZILLER

[Neon John]

You're most welcome.

A driver can leave without a signature. Unless there are other means of delivery verification such as UPS's barcode readers, it can become a "he said, she said" situation. We try not to do that if at all possible. Speaking only for myself, of course, I go out of my way to satisfy customers. That's where repeat business comes from, after all. OTOH, there is always that one customer who cannot be pleased and who can spoil a whole week.

A major factor on the patience level of the driver is his quota and his pay method. Many (most? Not terribly familiar with that side) "City" drivers are paid hourly or on salary. Over-the-road drivers like myself are paid by the mile. We don't get paid while sitting still. Fortunately we OTR drivers rarely have to do "CITY" work. The only time I've had to do it was when the company just flat didn't have any freight were I was and offered me a day of city work. It's an ill-fit because OTR trailers don't have lift gates, hand carts and the like.

A few years ago I bought a hotrod electric scooter from a company who shall remain un-named cuz they eventually made things right. It came packaged in a sturdy plywood crate - but was held down inside the crate with friggin' lawn chair webbing! Of course the webbing broke forthwith and the scooter bounced around, spoiling the paint, breaking the throttle pot and a few other minor items.

The LTL company who delivered the thing said (correctly) "Crate is intact, not our problem." I don't know if the shipper had insurance or if they ate the loss. In any event, I emailed photos of the damage and they replaced the damaged parts and refunded me enough money to get the thing painted.

John

[Stormin Mormon]

I like your manners. Polite, even in the face of a vicious slam.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Always good to hear the other side of the story. Thanks for posting.

[RicodJour]

Kelly, I am very glad that you posted. Too often only one side is presented in this sort of thing, and presented in a way that is borderline libelous. Instead of lowering yourself and your company to the OP's level you replied completely and politely. I don't know your company, but I intend to visit your web site and see what you've got to offer. Knowing there is an intelligent and understanding person on the other end of the phone/web site is reassuring.

Take the rest of the day off, you've earned it. Print this out and hand it to your boss. If he has any common sense whatsoever, he'll agree with me.

R

[no spam]

I have, they tend to "hang around" until you sign for what ever they are shipping. You might have one upset driver but if you explain to him you are just trying to protect yourself he'll usually understand.

[Charlie Morgan]

I think it's fair to make them wait around if the shipment looks like it's been obviously damaged from the outside. I don't think they are reasonably obligated to hang around while you check the contents if the outer package appears okay.

That's why the "concealed damage" clause exists. Concealed damage, even if discovered while the shipper is standing there, will usually require an inspector to determine whether the damage is due to poor packing, or severe handling. Waiting 3 weeks to open the shipment, however, is nothing short of stupid.

CWM

[Nate]

I spoke with the owner of Ziller today... very, very nice guy and completely different experience. He assured me that he would work with the shipper and Generac to get this taken care of. He said they take great pride in their customer service and reputation. He impressed me so much that I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from them again.

As far as the signing issue, it's been covered in this thread already but definitely know what you're signing for... just receiving, receiving with no apparent damage, receiving with complete inspection, etc.

For those of you who provided constructive feedback, thanks again.

[RicodJour]

Everybody in this thread provided constructive criticism. You may not have liked how the constructive criticism was expressed, but it was constructive nonetheless. The only criticism that wasn't constructive, or warranted, was your own initial rant. You took something that was personal, your experience, which was based on your inexperience, and posted a rant on Usenet. That is not acceptable behavior, and that was simply pointed out to you.

I'm glad that the situation is being resolved amicably.

R

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Glad it will be resolved.

[Gym Bob]

Good luck. I was smoothed over by the shipping company with the same line.