Are these normal issues with contractor's agreement?

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Report this contractor to Charlie Crists office in Tallahassee. Attorney General.
They are going after contractors that try to rip people off especially from storm damage. See if this contractor gets a waived jury trial.
Pat.
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Eds right BTW, but playing Devils Advocate in this post....read on..

5% isnt high. There are contracts here that allow up to 25% of the total to be added. Your contractor isnt a bank, therefore, he wants his money too.

Its allowed here...sorry. Therefore, where do you get off saying its not allowed in any state? If I go buy $100,000 of parts and supplies on a contract that was signed by you, and you break the contract cause the weather changed, then damn right you are gonna pay something.

So..if the contractor goes out and buys materials that he will be charged at least 25% restocking fees on should you cancel, or worse yet, be unable to return, you just potentially screwed the hell out of him.

Nope. Thats called what your homeowners insurance is for. If the roofs already missing off your home, and the contractor starts work on it, and you get another storm, you are going to hold the contractor liable for anything that happens after he starts work? Wrong. The way I read it is simple: So long as his company took action to keep rain from entering, be it tarps, more plywood laid over etc....and you get another storm, and you get a leak that takes out your new $2000 widescreen, hes not gonna pay for it. Nor should he.

Here, that would be called a hidden damage clause. Meaning, that if during the course of the work, any hidden damage is found that was not quoted for repair due to it not being able to be seen, then the contractor stops and allows the customer to make up his mind as to what and how to proceed, after of course, IF needed requoting.

Thats a lawyers way of inserting a mold protection clause. Mold is the new asbestoes of the new era, and you will find something like that on most every contractors forms, unless hes wanting to find that one person who would go sue for millions over something that was in his house before, and he just didnt have the circumstances prevaliant for it to manifest itself.

And you checked to see if he had insurance right? What that clause is stating as I read it, as a contractor, that if you sue, and you already sound like one that would, HIS outlay of liability isnt going to be more than the amount you agreed to. His INSURANCE company on the other hand, isnt listed, and THATS what insurance is for.

Now, on a more serious note. Its obvious you dont trust the company, and in general, we dont trust anyone. The reason why is sue happy people. Business isnt like it used to be. I still have customers I can take care of with a handshake and never have to worry about. Then, you get the new one that you just dont have a good feeling about, and after years of doing this, there has been more than one time I have told them that I just didnt think we could satisfy them, and that we declined the work...only to find out later that another company did the work and they have had nothing but problems since it was done.
If you dont trust the contractor that has given the quote, just walk away and dont sign anything. By the same token, you may find a contractor that after talking to you, states that he cant do your work, or prices it out of your ballpark. It goes both ways.
That said, suggest you look around, find someone that has a reputation and ability that you trust, and then look his contract over. Many of the clauses in the contract will never apply to you, however, witihout them, that ONE person that is looking for a reason to try to get rich quick will find a way to manipulate it to his advantage.
Contracts used to be simple...you wanted work done, the contractor wanted to do the work and make a living. Now, due to litigation, most of it bull, since these days everyones sue happy, even when the works done perfect, contractors have HAD to take steps to protect themsleves.
Seriously tho...find another one you can live with, and allow them to do the work. Express your concerns to the owner, or the job super, and make sure its done your way, but at the same time, make sure you allow them to do it their way too. Over all, it will work out for you and them...you want a roof fixed, and they want to fix it and make a profit doing so..its how business works. If you would see the insurance agreements in most grocery stores for example, you would never set foot in one again....yet, millions do, and few ever get hurt..except for the 1% of the legitimate injury cases that actually hit the courts.. Chances are, you could use that company and never have a problem...but bottom line, you dont trust them, find another, but keep in mind, they dont trust you either.
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"Carolina Breeze HVAC"
Your comments are attempts to justify an utterly bogus contract. You are doing this by saying correctly that the contractor needs protection...while ignoring the obvous fact the contractor has deprived his customer of the customers legitimate rights.
Not impressive.
Phil Scott

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Bogus? I bet they paid some lawyers big bucks to write that. Fancy contracts is a way of life with national companies. Ever read the fine print on your credit card agreement?
What makes America great is that all you have to do is say "no thanks" and be on your way.
Below is typical wording of a quotation in my industry. In that industry for 35 years, I've only ever seen one sentence of this actually used in a dispute and since it was an industry practice, it was finally accepted by the buyer.
GENERAL TERMS AND ^CONDITIONS'
1. AGREEMENT. Our entire agreement consists only of the terms and conditions set forth below or on the front page hereof
and any specifications or other documents specifically referred to Herein. The terms of this Quotation relating to price/ -
description of goods or services, terms of payment and time and manner of delivery, shall be superseded by a subsequent
acknowledgement from us to the extent any of such terms therein vary from those set forth herein,
PRICE AND DELIVERY. Unless otherwise specified herein, all prices are f.o.b. our plant, no transportation allowed, with
Buyer to pay all charges for special packing and shipping. All quoted prices will remain in effect for a period of 30 days from
the date of Quotation. If method / routing of shipment is not specified by Buyer, we shall ship via any reasonable method
and routing. We will have no responsibility for loss or damage resulting from blocking or staying of goods for transit. Upon
our delivery of goods to a carrier for delivery to Buyer, Buyer shall be deemed to have received the goods and risk of loss
shall be Buyer's irresponsibility. If in our judgement the ability of the Buyer to pay when due becomes impaired, we may
withhold shipment (without prejudice to our other rights)
SPECIFICATIONS. Buyer will indemnify and defend us as to any and all legal proceedings, claims, demands, damages,
costs, expenses and attorney's fees arising from any alleged infringement of patent or trademark in the manufacture of
goods to the extent that Buyer furnishes specifications, drawings, notes, instructions, engineering notices or other techni-
cal data to us for us to follow in manufacturing the goods covered hereby. In addition, any such specifications or other
materials are made a part of our agreement and as to such goods manufactured, NO WARRANTY OR GUARANTEE AS
TO MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS THEREOF FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE IS MADE BY US UNLESS THE
SAME IS OTHERWISE SPECIFICALLY STATED BY US IN WRITING.
DELAYS. We will not be liable for loss or damage of any kind resulting from delay or inability to deliver goods arising
directly or indirectly on account of fire, flood, labor troubles, accident, acts of civil or military authorities, shortages of labor,
fuel, power, materials, supplies or transportation or from any other cause beyond our control.
LIABILITY. We warrant that our goods will be free from defects in materials and workmanship and in compliance with any
specification etc. furnished to us. In the event of defective goods. Buyers sole and exclusive remedy for any loss it suffers
is to receive, at election, a credit from us, in the amount agreed to by us, or replacement of the good by us. In no event will
we be liable under our own warranty (or in any action of contract or tort related to goods sold) for any labor, downtime,
increased expense of operation of any equipment, loss of anticipated profits or consequential damages of any kind. Claims
for defective goods, or for any other cause, shall be deemed waived and released by Buyer unless made in writing and
received by us within ten days after Buyer's receipt of the goods. Any goods as to which no valid claims are made in
pursuant to the foregoing shall be paid for when due regardless of any other controversies between us relating to other
goods. Buyer agrees to hold us harmless against all claims made by persons other than the Buyer arising out of our
goods.
SALES & SIMILAR TAXES. No sales, use or similar taxes on the goods are included in prices specified herein. Such of
these taxes as we are required to pay shall be added to the price and paid by the Buyer to us.
CHANGE IN SCOPE After an agreement has come into existence, no changes shall be made except by mutual written
agreement as to the price and nature of change.
CANCELLATION. Upon written notice from Buyer, our agreement may be cancelled upon concurrent payment of the total
of our cost previously incurred, our then existing commitments, any costs we incur as the result of cancellation, plus
fifteen percent of such total contract price with us.
STORAGE. At our option, goods may be stored at Buyer's risk and expense in the event of Buyer's request to defer
manufacture or delivery.
ACCEPTANCE. No agreement shall be binding on us until accepted in writing by our duly authorized officer at our plant.
ASSIGNMENT No proposal or agreement may be assigned by Buyer without written consent.
PROPER LAW. All matters concerning a proposal or agreement based thereon shall be governed by the laws of the state
of manufacture.
WAIVER. A waiver by us of full compliance with these terms and conditions on any occasion shall in no way constitute a
course of conduct obligating us to waive full compliance on any other occasion.
MOLDS, DIES OR TOOLING. It is acknowledged that if BUYER is supplying molds, dies or tooling to us to enable us to
manufacture goods for BUYER, we hold the same at the sole risk and expense of Buyer and we will not have any liability
whatsoever beyond routine maintenance except to repair or replace the same in the event of damage thereto caused by
our willful acts or gross negligence. Buyer should obtain any insurance with respect thereto as Buyer deems proper. We
shall maintain possession of the molds, dies and tooling until Buyer has paid us all amount due.
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Comments inserted: "Carolina Breeze HVAC" wrote

The problem lies with a late charge after 15 days, they already have an interest clause in the contract.

I suggest you read up on penalty clauses, they are not allowed in any state. By saying it is not a penalty clause, flashes a light at "look at me", I'm really liquid damages. Sorry, that doesn't hold water in a court. There should be no mention of penalty what-so-ever.
Your example of "x" amount for parts is totally irrelevant to the paragraph mentioned. They want 50% down, surely you read the contract.

You read the outlined payment schedule, didn't you? What is the problem?

Total hogwash. This type of job can be totally dried-in. Then it becomes "their word" against "your word". If a company won't stand behind their in progress work with a minimum of one million liabilty (some areas require up to triple the amount), their contract isn't worth reading in the first place.

It should say hidden damage. I suggest you not take anything for granite, and read what it actually does say. Pay close attention to the part of "deficiencies that manifest themselves during the construction process". What that says, if a problem arises regardless of fault, they will not take on liability, and you will pay.

That's a way to attempt to shrug liabilty issues. I'm afraid case law has already ruled in favor of the consumer.

Wrong. Contractors are liable, you can not write I am not liable for damages, and believe you are free and clear of liability issues. If you don't carry enough insurance, guess what's next?
You're right about one thing, I have sued and won, and won, for clients that have been taken by disgraceful contractors.
The bottom-line on a contract like this, it would cost a consumer, more for legal fees, than the fight would be worth.
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And disgraceful, dishonest ones need to be taken out. Point being, you are wrong on a few items, and I might not have been corrct on all, but I can tell you this, I have prob been a contractor/owner as long or longer than you have been in law, and two things are for sure: There are contractors that NEED to be taken down and There is a lawyer ready to sue anyone, over anything.
Thankfully, our state board, is mostly lawyers.

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This type of contract is only used by companies who don't have faith in their work. Kinda like the usless guy who puts on his boots everyday to lean on a shovel. He thinks because he existed ther is deserves to get paid, and isn't going to accept responsibility for his problems and damage. SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE COVERING THE ISSUES THEY HAVE GOTTEN IN TROUBLE FOR BEFOR.

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And you checked to see if he had insurance right? What that clause is stating as I read it, as a contractor, that if you sue, and you already
sound like one that would, HIS outlay of liability isnt going to be more than the amount you agreed to. His INSURANCE company on the other hand, isnt listed, and THATS what insurance is for.
His insurance company isn't listed because they are not a party to the contract. This section is crystal clear. The contractor has limited his maximum liabilitly to the total cost of the job. If the job costs $25K and he winds up causing $100K damage, he's off the hook for the other $75k and so is the insurance company. The lawsuit would be against the contractor. The insurance company will defend it in court, simply saying the contract clearly lists our clients maximum liability at $25K, which is exactly what it does. He could have $1mil in insurance, but if the homeowner caps his limit in the contract, he's out of luck.
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For what it's worth, the name of the company is ABC American Building Contractors - Insurance Restoration Services, Inc. According to the field rep who I talked to, they're supposedly a national company. Anyone ever heard of / dealt with them? I originally heard of them when a guy came around going through the neighborhood with door hangers.
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Disaster Chasers, most likely. Pick up teams of workers that float around after disasters. Charleston SC saw a lot of bad work after Hugo. I waited about 18 months to get my roof permanently repaired and my ceilings rebuilt. It was worth it. TB
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Right now, in Florida, every reputable contractor is busy as can be with hurricane damage. None have to go around and advertise with door hangars. I'd pass on them.
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There are many 'national' companies that are complete rip offs. Their contract tells you who they are.... self interested with no intest in your welfare. a good contract provides for both parties best interests contrary to what some in the semi literate set think. there is ample legal precident on that.
Phil Scott

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Checking the Florida Department of State website ( http://www.tinyurl.com/atwbg ) I see in their Articles of Incorporation that their business activity should be limited to "roofing, siding and gutters."
Additionally, I do NOT find any listing for them as a licensed contractor on the DBPR website (what is their license #???) ( https://www.myfloridalicense.com/Default.asp )
The following document from myflorida.com gives some good tips (avoid door-to-door peddlers, etc.) http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/dbpr/news/brochures_tips/protect_your_home_jan04.pdf
Most importantly, the contract, by law, should have the contractor's license number on it and you should demand a "Certificate of Insurance" from the contractor's workman's comp and general liablity carrier. Note the carrier provides it to you directly upon the contractor's request to them.
Are you still seeking repairs from the '04 storms?

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Hmm. I was under the impression that general contractors in Florida can do the whole house if they have a roofers license. In fact, the insurance company strongly urges getting a general contractor so they can handle it all - roof, carpet, drywall. These people supposedly are a general contractor.

CGC1507721
Yes.
By the way, for anyone reading this, I appreciate all the input.
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It is most unusual to find Articles of Incorporation that state specific business activities. The general AI say the "purpose" of the corporation is to "engage in any activities or business permitted under the laws of the United States and Florida." I've never seen Articles of Incorporation that don't use that broad langusge.
If they are doing anything other than "roofing, siding and gutters" they *may* be operating in violation of their Articles of Incorporation and this may place them in some legal jeopardy. Ask the Department of State or an attorney.
Regarding GC's doing roofing see: http://www.state.fl.us/dbpr/os/hot_topics/Charley/press_release_05_148.pdf
Perhaps the fact that their Articles of Incorporation specify roofing has something to do with getting by "easier" in Florida under the active executive orders.
And you know their office is in Minnesota - right?

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There was a company by that name years ago in SC. They got sued so much they left the state, Moved to NC. May be no connection. But companies like names that begin with A, because it puts them first in the phone book. The language of their contract scares me. I would put a big plastic tarp on the roof for now and keep looking for a good contractor.
Stretch
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shingle. In most cases they occur because a nail was missed when the roof was stripped. The other area for nail pops that no one has mentioned is drywall nail pops. It is possible to have nail pops in your drywall ceiling as a result of a roofing job.
Nail pops that occur in a new drywall job are usually, but not always, the result of the nail not being properly set. Most drywall guys try to limit the recalls because a lot of consumers abuse the contractor by calling them out a year after the work to fix a few nail pops and then wanting a new paint job out of the repair.
I agree with the others who responded. RUN, don't just walk away from this company.
The poster who provided the links to the "standard" contracts gave you some good links.
Colbyt
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10-4 thanks.
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Doc ( snipped-for-privacy@xhotmail.com) said...

Regardless of what is pre-printed on a contract, if you do not want something in there, you have the right to cross it out, make modifications, or add new sections. Do so, keep them reasonable (a contract is supposed to be fair to both sides, but that is probably why you would want changes) and initial each of your changes.
Of course, they don't have to accept your changes, but you won't be locked into accepting their original terms if you have only signed a modified contract. Be up front, or be sorry.
This goes for anything in life where something has to be signed. I once had to sign admission papers when my wife went into hospital and if you ever read these things, you are basically giving them permission to do any test and procedures for any possible reason that they feel is necessary. I crossed out that section and wrote in amedments restricting them to specifics related to the admission plus emergency procedures for life threatening situations. I know, this could be open to interpretation, but at least I felt better than signing a blank cheque.
The clerk reacted like I had made amendments to the Bible! Still, they had to accept what I had done as it was not unreasonable.
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
  Click to see the full signature.
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I'm a contractor relationship newbie. To date I've never paid a cent to a contractor, personally. I'm a DIY guy from way back, however that's gonna change soon, and that's for sure. My house needs a lot of work that's simply beyond me - foundation, roof repair, tons of stuff.
I checked out a video from the library a few days ago that I'm sure you would find very interesting. I watched it the other day and found tons of great stuff pertaining to your situation. It's put out by the BBB and titled "Hiring A Home Contractor." If you look, you should have trouble finding the video and it may save you a ton of money and problems and may help you achieve your goals. Good luck!
Dan
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