Any experience here with solar panels or windmills?

[celticsoc]

Well, here's why being a hypocrite in this instance is a problem:

[ke4fxc_at_knology_dot_net]

OK here another one for you all to think about... Al Gore has a MAJOR Interest in a Carbon Trading Company... He can buy the credits he needs to stay neutral... SO if enough people cut back or use a different more green wayof living and sell there excess credit to the company then HE CAN MAKE MONEY ON THE TRADE and live like a hypocrite. because other people are saving carbon. IT's the same thing power company's are doing older power plants pay a "tax" to pollute and newer cleaner plants sell there credits.

BUT THESE CARBON TRADING COMPANY'S ARE MAKING THE MONEY IN FEES for there handling the exchange.The government set up the system. ANOTHER Form of hidden tax that gets passed on down to to the little person. People like Al Gore do as they please and sing all the way to the bank.

Charles

[HeyBub]

Psst: Al Gore owns the carbon trading company.

It's like prostitution: You've got it. You sell it. You've still got it.

[George]

Next time you see al ask him about how silly ones position becomes when you make an Ad Hominem attack.

Out of curiosity what did algore do for you to gain your complete total love and devotion?

[hallerb]

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heat a swimming

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Al Gore might be obamas VP nominee:)

He could specialize in environmental issues, and brings experience to the presidency, since he was VP previously

[Barney]

geez why don't you just go up there and su*k his di*k.

[HeyBub]

Yeah, but he keeps flying in his private jet.

Thank goodness there's a new airline for fat-asses: Derrie-Air

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Bob F said something like:

Yes, I'm well aware of what he said. This statement:

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

...s enough to stick. Note the key components of this:

*I* -- Al Gore *I took the initiative* -- Al Gore did something on his own that was novel *creating the internet* -- creating means that there was no internet before, and then there was. "Invented" is hardly a far cry from that.

Did this statement float around without context? Yep. Did it stand all by itself as something obnoxious? No, I'm pretty sure what he meant by it, given the context of the conversation. But it is not "pure bunk"-----the public /misunderstanding/ of this is purely understandable.

[Erma1ina]

Bob F wrote:

Right.

But it took the Republican "slime machine" to obscure the truth and propagate the lie through an intellectually-lazy bunch of disgruntled "ditto heads" into the wider culture.

If you want to know what two of the acknowledged "internet wizzards" (Robert Kahn and Vint Cerf) thought [in 2000] about Al Gore's contributions to the creation and growth of the internet-as-we-know-it, check out:

Here are some direct quotes:

"Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development. . . . AS THE TWO PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED THE BASIC ARCHITECTURE AND THE CORE PROTOCOLS THAT MAKE THE INTERNET WORK, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time. [Emphasis added] . . . "The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective. . . . "As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. . . . "As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an "Interagency Network. . . . Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This "Gore Act" supported the . . . initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

"As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. . . . ". . . No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President."

[Andy Energy]

So they are both hypocrites: Al tells us to do as he says not as he does and George tells us to do as he says not as he does. So choose your poison. I choose to do my own thing. And that is do as much as I can for the planet and get me off the addiction of OIL. 6 years and no electric ill and my gas bill keeps getting smaller. I do not put pay back at the top of the list of why to do something. It is normally on the bottom. If there was good info on the total effect a product has on our environment it would be at the top.

We did a lot of energy reduction, then production. Now we are doing more reduction soon to do a solar DHW thermal hot water and maybe some solar thermal heating. My goal is to get the gas to zero.

If one wants to look at what is the most cost effective. Reducing the energy consumed is almost always less expensive then producing more. So, do a complete Whole House Performance analysis and do many of those items first before producing more.

Every company will have conflicting information on the performance of their equipment. They all want you to think they have the best. You should be able to find info on the Department of Energy site for estimating the size you need. As for the companies I do not have a good answer for you.

I have a PV (Photovoltaic) system for 8 years now. It has 24-120 watt kyocera panels and a Sunny Boy inverter and faces SW on a 4-12 pitch roof with no shading. It produces about 4,300 kWh=92s per year. It has been running now for 6 years.

As for wind look into

I understand they have a durable unit. As for production your specific site can vary dramatically year to year. One would have to study it for many years at the height of the wind turbine. Not practical. So you have to go by the experience and knowledge of those in your area. I do not recall where but there is a comprehensive US wind map. Your area can vary depending on the micro climate your in.

I hope some of this helps.

Andy

[tmurf.1]

The only thing I get from that extremist artical is the fact that Al Gore put his money where his mouth is. He knows it is true and he believes it is a good investment and he trys to promote it. Not Hypocricy as I define it.

[tmurf.1]

The public misunderstanding is due to right wing lies and spin it was intentionally twisted to make him look rediculous and then repeated thousands of times and they are still doing it.