Am I grounded? Electrically speaking.

[Chantecleer]

Have a question on Electrical outlet grounding. Hope you guys can help me out.

I'm pretty new to Home repairs but learning fast. I had ran into a small item that I cannot seem to accept. Namely, grounding an outlet.

I had replaced an old two prong outlet with a 3 prong in the garage. The original was not grounded, obviously. I was told by the "Guy" at Home Depot that the only thing I had needed to do to ground the outlet was to connect the GREEN screw to the metal casing I had got to install the plug in. The old casing was thrown away. I got one of them industrial metal casings and screwed it to the Drywall in the garage.

For the life of me, I don't see how the outlet is grounded. The "Guy" says, as long as it is to 'metal' I'm grounded. The House is grounded with an 8 foot copper bar to the Main breaker box. But the metal box, is just to the drywall. Also am worried about arcing. The Hot lead and the Neutral are in this box, and both screws are about 1/4 inch away from the casing. Is this a cause for alarm? Should it be insulated away somehow?

On the outlet, I had connected a #8 piece of copper wire to the metal casing, and the green screw.

Am I grounded on this outlet?

Many thanks,

Chantecleer

[Anthony Diodati]

No. The ground needs to run all the way back to the breaker or sub panel only. No running it to a water pipe, no running it to The/A ground rod, etc. Tony D.

[Art Begun]

Also in the garage you need a GFI.

garage. The

casings and

[Jeff Wisnia]

That "guy" at HD is fixin' to kill someone some day if he's dispensing that kind of helpful advice. I'm pleased you were sharp enough to question what he told you here.

BTW, a quarter of an inch is plenty of spacing between the screw heads and the box. If you want to really check it out, turn off the power to that circuit and loosen (but don't remove) both of the outlet hold down screws. Then twist and push the outlet to see if either of those screws could touch the box if the screws vibrated loose.. Chances are they won't, boxes and outlets are made to accomdate the motion allowed by the slotted holes in the outlet mounting tabs. It's there to let you compensate for a minor mounting tilt of the box.

It's a nice revenge fantasy to think about writing a letter to HD about your experience, if you'd remembered the "guy's'" name.

Someth> Have a question on Electrical outlet grounding. Hope you guys can help me out. >

[HA HA Budys Here]

True only if that metal box is grounded. What kind of method is used to bring power to this new industrial box? If it's romex (NM cable) it should have a ground wire. If it's BX (metal armored cable) the armor *used* to be considered a sufficient ground, and if it's pipe or EMT (Electrical metallic tubing) it should be grounded by a continuious metallic raceway system all the way back to the panel.

That's great but grounding the service won't ground each individual box or device.

Well if the box isn't grounded, no cause for alarm, electricity doesn't have a reason to arc to a non grounded box! Otherwise, we usually wrap a couple wraps of electrical tape around the body of the outlet, covering the terminal screws. Not really to protect from arcing though - more to prevent the spackler's knife from shorting out the outlet when he passes it over the edge of the plaster ring.

If the box isn't connected to ground, it's not grounded. Why did you use a #8?

[John Gilmer]

Well, if he puts in a GFCI, he really doesn't need a "ground" in the first place. The GFCI provides MUCH more protection than a mere ground.

[Chantecleer]

Cut the top...

I had #8 solid copper wire. So I used it. Leftover from when I bonded the Hot and Cold water pipe to the gas pipe, as the City inspector said I should. (The main box was upgraded.)

The wiring of the outlet was a conversion. It had a 30 Amp 220V plug on it that I will never use. So I converted it to a 20 Amp 110 plug. Had extra breakers in the box. This plug had 3 wires used to go to an electric dryer at 220V. I taped up the Red Hot wire and used the Black Hot and the White Neutral. It did not have any grounding from what I could see. I had put the plug into the box and it all works. But I could not believe this was grounded just because the green wire went to the metal box. I'm running the washer and dryer off it. Gas dryer.

I am replacing the plug with a GFCI. Immediately. Won't I have the same problem however? The GFCI will also just go from Green screw to the metal casing of the box. Is there something else I need to do here? I would NOT want to rewire the whole thing. I'd rather shoot it.

Thanks for all the common sense help.

Chantecleer

[George E. Cawthon]

It's not grounded. If you want safety you need to add a grounding wire from the box to the breaker buss. I don't know about code, but I would simply add that wire to the surface of the wall and cover it with a wooden strip. To meet code you would probably have to run it in conduit.

Yes, your assumption about the GCFI is correct, and would still need to add a grounding wire to meet code. But GCFI doesn't need a ground to operate, so you would be safe(r).

[zxcvbob]

Why not just use that extra red wire for a ground? Wrap green tape around it at each end to signify that it is ground instead of hot.

GFCI does not need to be grounded for old work. I had to do that in my kitchen. If it's not grounded, there should be a sticker attached that says "No equipment ground".

Best regards, Bob

[Chantecleer]

Chop the top

Since I'm close to the Water Heater, and it does have cold, hot pipe and gas pipe bonded, I assume I could run a copper wire to the box which is 5 feet or so away. If I were to ground the box, I'd be done.

Bare copper would be a bad idea? I do have shielded green groundwire. But since the pipes are bonded together with bare copper behind the water heater, I could just extend that wire. Guess I need to look up the code. I think around here they adhere to NEC 1996.

Thanks for your help.

Chantecleer

[Art Begun]

Doesn't the GFI require a good ground to work properly?

[George E. Cawthon]

See zxcvbob. You already have a third wire, so use it. If you bonding wire leads back to the box, I assume you can use it, otherwise not. I think you need the wire protected, but other here can answer exactly, if you know who to believe. Or ask your friendly electrical inspector.

[George E. Cawthon]

Damn, I missed that, he does have 3 wires so its simple as you said.

[George E. Cawthon]

[zxcvbob]

The difference between hot and *neutral*. Ground is a good idea but irrelevant from the GFCI's perspective.

I haven't really figured out how a 220V GFCI works though (assuming there's a neutral as well as the two hot wires). I saw a 220V GFCI breaker (50A?) in a weatherproof metal box for less than $100 yesterday -- it was labelled as a disconnect for a spa, which I assume has a 110V lightbulb and maybe a timer or pump as well as the 220V heater (hence a neutral.) This sounds ideal for a temporary service at a jobsite or in a garage or something.

Bob

[Rob]

[Chantecleer]

The third wire is Red in color. I had considered using it and just put it on the ground block, but I'm not certain about the marking.

And after talking to my so called "Electrical Inspector" on a couple of other items, I believe I'm better off with doing the research myself. To be safe and to be to code. This idiot does not live in reality. I will stick to the code and common sense. (Oxymoron in a lot of cases.)

Chantecleer

[zxcvbob]

If you wrap green electrical tape around both ends just up from where the insulation is stripped, it is no longer a red wire. All the red in the middle doesn't count.

Seriously, Bob

[George E. Cawthon]

Another term for the neutral wire is "ground." The neutral(ground) is bonded to the green wire at the box. The green wire in older stuff (maybe still) is called the "grounding" wire.

[George E. Cawthon]

It's the other leg of the 240. I see zxcvbob has told you how to proceed, just folllow his advice. It looks like you have it pretty easy.