Aluminum frame and replacement window problem - window.jpg (0/1)

I have old aluminum frame windows in my bedroom and wanted to replace them with double humg vinyl windows to keep more sound out of the nearby road. I didnt want to start taking off the siding so I went for replacements. My aluminum frame looked like it was just glued around the inside window frame so I started prying it out. Hours later, and not getting too far, I realized that this things is nailed into the frame of the house, under tha original asbestos shingles, which are under the vinyl siding. I mangles the bottom of the frame and had to hacksaw it out. Now I am screwed. I wanted to remove the entire aluminum track but it doesnt look like I can. When I push my replacement window against the aluminum frame, using that as a stop, it looks fine from the inside but the outside is missing wood. Is there anything that can be done to repair this other than buying new construction windows? I paid $500 for two windows from Home Depot and they are custom sized and I cannot return them.
If I originally installed these against the aluminum frams, would they have been effective? I thought aluminum carries sound. Also, there is a small 1/16 raised line of aluminum that runs down the center of the left and right frame that would cause the window to not be flush with the entire frame. I really made a mess of this window. I am trying to do damage control. Is there a way to do this? Please refrain from the "why did you even try this yourself?" posts. I know I messed up. I learned the hard way. I didnt think it would be this hard but as usual, a big can of worms fly open.
I attached a picture although I am not sure if you can see it. If not, I can email a picture to you.
Thanks
Johnny
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Do what Smutty said about the pictures.
I am sure that with the combined mind power and experience of this group that you can find a way to make them work.
Colbyt
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Thanks. Here are some pictures:
Outside close up
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6728/windowks.jpg
Inside. You can see the aluminum frame on the left side and where it used to be on the bottom. The fin went in between the sill and the siding.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6128/windowinside.jpg
Outside wide
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3894/windowoutsidewide.jpg
Here is the mess I got myself into. I bought two windows for the same room. They are identical other than the size. The are right next to eachother. One is on the perpendicular wall. The way I see it, I can install the one I didnt ruin and use the aluminum frame as the stop. I just dont know if I can salvage the one I f'd up. I guess I can get the new installation version of it but it probably will look different than the replacement window that will be next to it.
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wrote:

You made some work yourself, but it looks fixable to me. If the rest of the window is tight to weather, you just have to fit in a correctly sloped sill, and maybe cover the aluminum to dress it up. White would probably do. I would undercut the old sill a bit and make it level as possible. Small belt sander and/or chisel. Screw the new sill piece in. Long drill bits to countersink holes. Plenty of caulk. Some saw work needed to fit. It's hard to tell the cosmetics from pictures, but you'll know what looks decent. Might be some plastics would work as well or better than wood. The main thing is getting it all weather tight.
--Vic
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wrote:

DIY or modified sash replacement kit! I'm not being nasty or critical. Time for some "damage control", kindly said.
Is there any way you can easily/conveniently remove the bottom vinyl (window frame) exterior face molding piece, such that it can be easily, reasonably, replaced? If so....
Re - Your first pic: The bottom fin (of your new sash) is butted against raw wood (the old sill?). I can't see/identify the sash's side fins, to see how they are seated. Pull the bottom of the (window) sash out, a bit, and slide some kind of moisture barrier (felt, rubberized wrap) between the fin and that raw wood. Push the sash back against the sill/wood. Extend the moisture barrier exteriorly (toward the outside of the house). Your new, extended sill should butt against the fin and butt under the sash's sill. As Vic has said, good caulking at the new/old sill/fin junction is recommended. In this above described process, if you are/were able to remove the bottom exterior vinyl face molding, you will want to extend the moisture barrier beyond the vinyl siding.... I'm not sure how this is going to work out, as I can't quite see exactly what is there.
Prior to extending the moisture barrier and installing the new extended sill: Is there any significant gap between the original exterior wall and the vinyl siding? If so, you need to fill that gap, so that the vinyl siding is/can be butted and attached securely against the exterior wall, all along (left to right) the window span. This security will facilitate the moisture barrier stability and the new sill extension, beyond the vinyl siding.
If you are able to install a moisture barrier along the sides of the sash, shielding any raw wood, do so. I understand the vinyl siding, face molding and/or the aluminum frame may interfere with this installation. If I understand correctly, though, the aluminum framing/ jams are still in place along the sides, hence, no raw wood exposure and negating installation of a moisture barrier, here. I am supposing you understand the need/concept to shunt water/moisture beyond the vinyl siding. I hope you can easily/convenietly install a moisture barrier, in adddition to the new sill/framework.
If you have to add any wood or rebuild something, use treated lumber or a composite material, if possible.
Are you located near Lafayette, La.? I'd come over and give you a hand.
Sonny
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Thanks for the detailed reply. Hey Sonny, is Long Island close enough to La? I am going to go outside and take a look closerat what the heck is going on there. I now know that there is asbestos shingles under my siding. I had no idea before I did this.
I have one more question about this.
This is looking at the left frame head on
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2193/frame1j.jpg
This one is slightly looking left so that you can see the protrusion. It looks like 1/16 - 1/8" out.
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4777/frame2e.jpg
Here are two pics of the second aluminum window frame. Note the protruding piece of aluminum that runs in the middle of the frame. It is there for the entire length of the left and right vertical frame. The whole reason I caused this mess is that if I simply installe the replacement against the framee, it would only make contact with the protrusion and not the entire frame. Since I was doing this more for sound reduction (from my always noise, inconsiderate day and night neighbors), I would think there wouldnt be a good enough seal to accomplish that. If it would have been ok to install it that way, then I did all of this for nothing. . Please look at the following pics:
Tony
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I think I see what you are talking about. Many aluminum frames have a, sometimes more than one, similar small lip, as that. I am thinking: If there is just a small space between the sash and the aluminum jam/frame, I would think some expanding foam would help seal and shore up that contact area. If this is a reasonable option, make sure all your alignments (level and square) are in place, before you seal the sash with the expanding foam. If you are unsure about using such a tight or secure (glue-like) foam seal, then "backer rods" may be more comforting, for packing into that tight small spacing. Backer rods are foam or foam-like rods (various diameter sizes, for packing into small crevices, as that....1/16" or 1/8" is pretty small, not sure if you can easily find a small backer rod for that size. I am supposing the side and top fins are unable to be secured, as they normally would be.
After reviewing all the pics again, and specifically the 3rd pic: I had earlier mentioned removing the lower vinyl exterior face frame molding. Maybe you have already removed the exterior molding, i.e., the aluminum one (the sill you cut out). Was there an exterior aluminum lower face molding, similar to the vinyl one, that has been removed OR was the sill, you cut out, also the lower molding (same piece, 2 functions)? If so, then forget about removing the vinyl one and consider proceeding, with the previous instructions regarding moisture barrier installation. The new sill will have to have 2 functions, also, if applicable, relative to the position of the previous aluminum sill (& face molding?). Does this correction (backtracking) make sense? **If there is some confusion here, we may need a picture of another intact aluminum window, with all the exterior facings/sill in place, to see it's layout, especially the sill, i.e., you mangled the bottom of the sill and had to hacksaw it out, so we don't know, for sure, how the drip edge part, of the previous sill, was positioned over (or in conjunction with) the vinyl. Since we have to make a new sill, we may need to see an intact window to get a perspective for a plan of fabrication and the installation.
As long as you don't break those shingles into powder form (into a dust form, able to be breathed in), you should be safe. If you have to cut, trim, drill or otherwise break any of the shingles, spray them, first and as you cut, with cheap hair spray (sticky stuff), to prevent dust from flying. That kind of wetness (hair spray) won't bother your wood, insulation, etc., nor your tools. Don't spray bare wire/wiring areas.
Sonny
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wrote:

for 2 window companies a few years back, what I would have done, and it may not be too late yet, is install the windows with a "brick mold" instead of a "fin". The fin can be removed, and a brick nmold kit odered, from most vinyl window manufacturers. This brick mold seals against the siding on the outside, most good installers today use a thermoplastic caulk to seal it - and the window then fits in from the outside. The inside jam is extended to the required depth to allow interior trim to be installed. The space between the window frame and the house framing is filled with low-expanding foam after the window has been blocked into place, making sure it is totally plumb and square, in all directions.. This makes it airtight and sound-tight, and if installed in this way it will also be completely water and moisture tight. Ideally the windoe will be ordered about half an inch smaller than the "rough opening" - which needs to be established before ordering. Usually not hard to determine by removing one or more pieces of internal trim to measure the thickness of the jam, and removing double the jam thickness from both vertical and horizontal measurements of the "finished opening"
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 15:34:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Thanks everyone. I was able to return the replacement windows to Home Depot minus 15% restocking fee and went to Lowes and bought new construction windows. This is really the best way to do it. Thanks for the suggestions though. It seemed like it was going to be as difficult making a modification tothe frame than it would to just stick new ones in.
Tony
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You bought new construction windows? Did you buy the whole window unit, frame and all, OR just sashes? Be careful with terminology. Sometimes it's confusing.
If you bought whole units (frame and all), you still need to consider installing a moisture barrier between the new window frame and the house's rough framing.
Sonny
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wrote:

found "new constructon" of "rough opening" windows are just about the only way to go.
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