a 50cc scooter

[Micky]

A neighbor kid found a scooter, a mini-bike, in the woods. He called the police to report it, but and a patrol car came out soon after, but the cop said that since it didn't have a VIN, they weren't really interested, implied he could have it, and left without it. I offered to help him fix it up.

Does anyone here have experience with a 50cc or so scooter?

1) Is the VIN under a panel somewhere? The bike is street-legal but without a VIN it will be harder to get plates.

2) Will it start without a battery?

3) How hard is it to remove the gas cap without a drill. (It's a locking gas cap, can you believe it?)

4) Where is the Engine Stop switch.

5) Do I want a lead acid battery or sealed lead acid? The latter is a gel, that doesn't have the output, right?

6) In what way does it have neutral gear? The owner's manual** or something refers to neutral gear, but there is no gear shift. Perhaps there is something internal that puts it in neutral when the engine is at idle. Get this: it has an automatic transmission.

So, the instructions say to keep one's hand on the brake when starting it. Is that only because something not standard might make the engine race, which would put it in gear?

**(The reapir manual is very good, but it's sort of a composite of past, present and future models. For example, the manual also refers in the schematic to an Emergency Stop Switch but in the sketch of where the parts are, there's no reference to such a switch, and all the switches are accounted for.)

[bob_villain]

...you have to be one of the biggest nitwits on the plane t! ?|???|?

[Dean Hoffman]

You might want to investigate your state's law about street legal. He might be able to ride around town but not on a highway. Minimum for interstate riding is 10 horsepower in Nebraska, for example.

Does it have a kick starter? It would have to go back to the days of magneto ignition to run without a battery.

Lead acid is fine. Walmart might have one.

I bet it has a centrifugal clutch. Neutral is just the engine idling down. Speed is just controlled by engine rpm.

There might be a switch to keep it from starting if the brake isn't engaged. A motorcycle needs to be in neutral for it to start. I think I have to hold the clutch lever in also. I can't remember here sitting in my lazy chair since it's such an ingrained habit. Mine has a switch to kill the motor if the it's in gear and I put the kick stand down.

There's a group called rec.motorcycles. You might have better luck checking there. It's about dead but who knows.

[Terry Coombs]

The guys over at Reeky probably don't know much about scooters ... most of us ride much bigger machines . Mine's an 800 pound Harley touring bike . Micky might try looking for a yahoo group about them .

[David L. Martel]

Micky,

The scooter does not belong to this kid. Before you spend a lot of time and money fixing the scooter find the owner and get ownership of it. Finding something does not make it yours once you reach the age of 10 If you can not find the VIN you may e-mail the manufacturer or their US dealership. They'll know where the VINs are located.

Dave M.

[Don Y]

From , it appears "Micky" can't decide whether HE found the scooter:

"I found a small, gasoline-power scooter in the woods near my house I called the police, and a car came prettyi quickly, and because it doesn't have a VIN, the patroleman wasn't interested. i said, "Well, even if doesn't have a VIN, I would think the owners want it back." But he said if I didn't want it, they'd take it to a yard where it woudl sit for months and if it didn't run, they'd junk it.

It doesn't run."

or, if the neighborhood *kid* found it:

"A neighbor kid found a scooter, a mini-bike, in the woods. He called the police to report it, but and a patrol car came out soon after, but the cop said that since it didn't have a VIN, they weren't really interested, implied he could have it, and left without it. I offered to help him fix it up."

I'm waiting for the THIRD version of the story (i.e., maybe the COP found it??)

Or, maybe it's all a dream and there is NO scooter...

[IGot2P]

That is probably the most intelligent post that I have seen in this group in some time.

[Micky]

Probably needs a license.

Yes. I wouldn't have asked otherwise. :-)

I didn't mean to post 8 posts, inclduing these questions, after already getting answers to most or all of them. On the scooter webforum, I was told that if there was an Alternating Current system, it would start without a battery. But that with a DC system, it needed a battery. And it's definitely DC. I suppose there really has been AC circuilts.

I was in Walmart for other reasons and they didn't have shelf space for motorcycle batteries, but they had some moveable shelves with 40 of them of various sizes, all half price. One, marked down from 34 to 17, was just about the right size but turned out to be about 1/4" too tall. And I forgot to consider the core charge of $12, and I don't have a core, so that's 29. At the time, there was one on-line that was exactly right for $25. He said he only had two left. It will be interesting to see if he finds more after he sells these. ...Well he still has 2 of them.

You're right.

LOL. This one has no clutch lever, just the automatic one. I was right that if something made it race when someone started it, it might go forward. So the same pair of switches in the brakes, either of which turns on the brake light, also powers the starter motor start circuit.

I think the owner's manual it was that said ''Note: Ensure center stand is deployed before trying to start the scooter." but I couldn't figure out if deployed meant up or down. ??? Turns out acc. to the schematic, it's not true anyhow for this particular bike.

I think I was wrong about this. The manual is NOT a composite; and there is an Emergency Stop Switch on the handlebar, even though it's not in any sketch in the manual.

There is also a Light Switch on the schematic that I couldn't find elsewhere in the manual or on the scooter, but voila, when the engine started, the headlight went on.

Snag, a yahoo group is a good idea. Not as good a format as a newsgroup, but much better than a webforum.

Thanks both of you

[Micky]

Good point. There are some other reasons to think it's abandoned, but I'll look into it further.

It's a question on a take-home test I'm taking and I was hoping you all would give me the answers.

If you must know, the OP in this thread was written almost a month before I posted anything here about the scooter. Googling for info I found webforums for motorcycles and scooters specifically, so I asked the questions there. They probably do know more than the people here, but webforums are so darn inconvenient, compared to newsgroups, I didn't go back. By the time I posted here, the kid's parents had decided it was too dangerous for him and too expensive to fix. About $100 for parts, not counting body parts, if they can be found. So I left him out of the post to shorten it.

Thanks, both of you.

[Dean Hoffman]

That's something scooters and motorcycles have in common. The headlight is on once the motor starts. I've had only 4 bikes and they were all like that. The local concrete company runs its trucks with lights on. It's hard to believe how much more noticeable those big white trucks are with lights on.

[clare]

Up here in Ontario Canada it has been a legal requirement for motorbikes to run with lights for several decades - and all new Canadian market cars have daytime running lights - any time you are moving, you are lit up.

[rbowman]

You wouldn't believe how many people fail to notice a bright red Volvo White with 40 tons behind it that's getting ready to turn them into roadkill.

[rbowman]

The daytime running lights on cars negates any advantage of a headlight on a bike standing out.

The last car had daytime lights I came out of work one evening at about dusk. Perhaps I was preoccupied but I started the car, saw the light beams and drove off. About a half mile later a cop pulled me over and was getting ready to ticket me for defective tail lights since he saw the headlights but no taillights. I told him the tail lights were fine and they would come on if I turned the headlights on. It took a while to convince him.

The next Toyota I bought was the same model but no longer had the daylight feature. I realy think if you're going to have daylight headlights the taillights should come on too like on a bike.

[clare]

The dash lights don't come on with the daylites - so if you are anywhere near hald awake it's pretty obvious when you are driving without full lights.

[Dean Hoffman]

I think my first motorcycle was a 1971. It ran with light on. I think the dimmer switch was mounted right on top of the headlight. I thought daytime running lights were going to be required here in the U.S. too. I had a company pickup with DRL. 96 GMC maybe. I don't know if fuel mileage requirements put a stop to it but that pickup was the only one I've had with them.

[rbowman]

It's not obvious to anyone outside of the car. I had several civilians tell me my tail lights were out when they saw the headlights on and a couple of them were persistent.

[clare]

Fuel mileage and DRLs????

I defy anyone to measure the difference with or without.

[clare]

Doesn't have to be obvious to those outside the car, just to the nut holding the wheel.

[Don Y]

I think "daytime running lights", means different things. E.g., the DRL's on our car are *not* the same lamps that illuminate the roadway at night (i.e. "headlights"). Instead, they are just a line of lamps (LED's) beneath the actual headlamps. They are spaced close enough together (optically) that they look like an "underline" of sorts.

A few days ago, I was face-to-face with some other vehicle with a similar arrangement. When he applied his turn signal, these white lights turned to yellow and "swept" outward to complement his turn signal indicator (cool, but not worth a penny, IMO).

[Micky]

Anything automatic can be a help and a problem.

My headlights come on, maybe dimmer than normal, whenever I start the engine on my 2000 toyota. This led to problems when I wanted to surveil my girlfriend's home and I needed to run the engine for heat.

I finally learned that if I put the hand brake on BEFORE I start the engine, the headlights don't go on.

But now I don't know how to turn the lights on without turning the engine on.

This car has two photocells on the dashboard. One turns some more lights on when it gets dark, and I forget what the other one does. I like them.