110v line to 220v line?

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A son has a garage that is about 25 ft. from his house. Previous owner ran a direct burial 2-12 w/ground wire to it. It is a 20a 110v circuit. I am wondering about changing it to 220v by using the ground wire as the neutral, white wire to one side of the breaker box, black wire to other then putting down a new ground rod out from the garage and running a new ground wire from it for ground in the garage making 220v and 110v available so he can do some modest shop work??
Thanks for any help,
Walt Conner
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Wire is so cheap why not do it right?
use a 10 gauge wire for less voltage drops.
tools like a circiular saw are a BIG current draw and common in the home shop
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Wire is so cheap why not do it right?
use a 10 gauge wire for less voltage drops.
tools like a circiular saw are a BIG current draw and common in the home shop
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You'll never get such a kluge to pass inspection and if the place burns down you'll never collect insurance and may face criminal charges.
I'd recomend spending the 40 bucks for wire and paying a kid the 4 hours labor to dig the trench to burry a new wire.
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"You'll never get such a kluge to pass inspection and if the place burns down you'll never collect insurance and may face criminal charges."
Mind explaining your rationalization? Might want to re-read my post.
Walt Conner
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WConner wrote:

Well for a start, I don't believe that an un-insulated neutral is allowed. I am not sure about your grounding idea either. I don't think it meets code.
I have to agree with those who are suggesting to do it right. The added cost would be well worth it to me.

--
Joseph Meehan

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"I am not sure about your grounding idea either. "
I think if you check your house wiring, you will find it is grounded this way, if you have a house built within the last 30 years or so at least.
"You forgot zoned heat piping and an underground tunnel so he never has to go outside. LOL"
ditto
Most likely the existing wire will be used for lighting circuit and a new line run. For those talking about how "cheap wire is" have you priced 10-3 w/ground direct burial wire lately? It will take a season or two to re-establish a nice lawn over the trench also.
Now for the "black tape, etc" comment, do you run two black wires to/from your wall switches? Since you break the black, this is what you should do, right? Better check to see all of yours are that way.
I wasn't very clear, the thought was to come from a new 220V breaker. The problem is the neutral would not have individual insulation, but would be insulated within the bundle, which in the case of the neutral, shouldn't make that much difference.
Thanks,
Walt Conner
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WConner wrote:

This is enough to indicate you should not be attempting this work. Your plan does not meet code. Code is there for a good reason. Neutral is a current carrying line NOT a ground. Oh sure you may say, it is connected to the ground so it is ground, but NO. That is a common comment from someone who does not understand that there is a good reason for every part of the code. If the connection to the ground should become separated, that :neutral may well be carrying 120V.
Please for your own good, follow the good advice you have been given and do the job right. In fact I suggest it would be a lot safer if you would chose to hire a professional to do it for you. Note all those who have responded to your suggestions and how many have found fault with your ideas.
Look over the usual responses and you will find that most of the time we agree with good save ideas. That should tell you that your plan is not good and safe.

--
Joseph Meehan

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"This is enough to indicate you should not be attempting this work. Your plan does not meet code."
While I agree that with the majority of the responses, some of you are a little over board. Ever hear of Tube and Knob wiring? Have any idea how many of these systems are still in use? I have completely wired 3 new houses and rewired 3 old houses, one with ball and tube. Code is fine and is there for some reason but some of it is overkill.
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WConner wrote:

Yes, It was a very good system in its time, but in the '70's I rewired my home to eliminate all active K&T wiring still in service.

Kill is the term. It is clear you don't respect the possible implications from the point of danger. Frankly I believe the attitude I perceive if foolhardy. I have seen many people who believe code is overkill and insist on doing something really dangerous. They can't understand how it can dangerous to them, because they just don't understand the problem, so they want to ignore the code. Please for your own sake and the sake of others who may be effected, follow the code, even if you can't see any reason for doing so.
Perhaps you will consider that not meeting code, is a good way of causing problems on down the line. Insurance and liability issues.
--
Joseph Meehan

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and have you any idea how many burned to the ground?
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" This is enough to indicate you should not be attempting this work. Your plan does not meet code. "
Thought I posted a reply to this but have been gone a couple of days and don't see it here.
Anyway, I did pose the question and perhaps you should read my last reply which you posted in your message. Pardon me but I think you may have a somewhat swelled head. I have completely wired 3 new houses, one a story and half with basement and rewired 3 older homes, one a story and half brick with plastered walls and basement. All have passed inspection without problem. Now if you would like to challenge this, one of us could stand to make a lot of money. I am glad to see there are a few people who took a sensible view of the question, thanks to you guys.
There are many knob and tube wired houses still in existance with entire floors running off one circuit. One of my re-wire jobs was one of these. Point is, code is over kill in some instances even if one must follow it.
Walt Conner
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WConner wrote:

I am glad you agree that we much follow it. However it is my experience that those who believe it to be overkill just don't understand why it was written the way it is.
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Joseph Meehan

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However it is my experience that those who believe it to be overkill just don't understand why it was written the way it is.
I have a strong suspicion that a considerable amount of it was for Turf Protection for Electrical Contractors and Union Installers.
There are several things I did not mention in the previous post about This is enough to show that you should not attempt this installation yourself. One of the new houses I wired from scratch happened to be one of the very first in our area to have a fully grounded system. The Professional electricians were not yet installing fully grounded systems. Where would I get the idea to do such a thing? From my Handy-Dandy Sears Home Wiring Simplified, or some such title, hand book.
Also for those who reacted so hysterically about ungrounded neutral wire, in this molded plastic wire, typical of much or most today, that particular wire is actually as well insulated as the conductors, it just does not have a separate sleeve with the sleeved conductors then having thinner body insulation. Might want to check the construction of 6 Ga. and larger wire of not too long ago, what comprised the Neutral. Never heard of any problem with it.
By the way, does everyone here feel it is necessary to post complete messages that are being responded too?
Walt Conner
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WConner wrote:

You can suspect what you want, but from my experience, every rule, including those that on first look sound suspicious have very good sound safety and electrical reasons for being there. I repeat my opinion that ignoring any part of the code is foolish.
--
Joseph Meehan

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wrote:

The National Electrical Code is published by the National Fire Protection Association. That should tell you something about the motives of its authors.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Who published the Code has nothing what-so-ever to do with who lobbied to have certain "Turf Protection" included.
Now for all you people who are running around frantically waving your CODE books, I am sure the next time you step into your car or truck and head down the highway, you will remember there is a code involved here also. Part of this code is posted on signs along the way and read - SPEED LIMIT 20, 35, 50, 55. etc, MPH. If you are running 56 MPH in 55 zone, you are breaking the code. Ignoring the code may lead to arrest, personal injury or death. To quote someone here - "The code is there for a reason, a very good reason. Ignoring it because the danger is not understood, is foolish and dangerous" anyone recognize this?
Walt Conner
Over and Out
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wrote:

This is really getting silly now.
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Really? If there's a fatality and it comes to light that you did electrical work without pulling a permit, nobody is going to care?
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wrote:

You might get sued but you are not going to jail unless they determine you intentionally tried to kill someone. Even the guy in Miami who wired 120v to a window grate to kill burglars avioded all criminal charges when he killed one.
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