we want to replace our current heater (gas furnace) with a new heating
system. And I would like to know if electric heat pump is a better
option over a gas furnace.
We live in california (SF area) and it doesn't go below 20. I hear that
a heat pump is cost effective fairly efficient for a place that doesn't
get too cold. Can someone guide me with the Pros and Cons of a heatpump
and gas furnace?
Also currently the furnace is installed in a closet inside the house.
Is it a good idea to move to the attic? Is it advisable to do so.
Thank you for yours suggestions
Unfortunately some of the most prolific of the "HVAC professionals"
here in alt.hvac do little to counteract the knuckle-dragging
foul-mouthed, impolite stereotype that many folks accuse the service
industry of having. It's a shame really.
I'd suggest a post to alt.home.repair where questions like this tend
to get answered more constructively rather than flamed.
As a homeowner, I can offer only this:
o Had a heatpump in a midwestern state as a kid. It got a lot
colder than 20 there in the winter at times, and comfort was
pretty lousy actually. But, I understand heat pumps have
improved a great deal since then, plus your area is much
different in climate, What you've heard matches what I've
heard about heat pumps, so they may well be a good thing to
consider. Hopefully someone who does a lot work in your area
can chime in. Until then, try this:
o Moving a furnace location is a Big Deal. I can't imagine it
would ever be advisable as you'd be paying a boatload to do,
and you'll probably end up making your system less effective
since the ductwork was designed to terminate at the systems'
Todd is *NOT* a tech, and doesn't havea clue. I have inserted my comments
below. FWIW, I grew up in Redwood City so I have a pretty good idea of what
your climate is.
A high efficiency heat pump would serve you well provided that it is
correctly sized, and installed. As far as the better option, that will
depend on the price of electric and nat gas rates.
A heat pump would serve you well just as another gas furnace would. Just
keep in mind that with a heat pump you will not get that blast of hot air
like you would from a gas furnace...heat pumps are designed to *maintain* a
constant, even temperature throughout your home. If you *DO* decide to get a
heat pump, I would recommend one with the new R-410a refrigerant, and a 10
year parts and labor warranty.
Keep it in the closet. Its easier to service, change filters, clean, and
maintain. If its easier and more accessable to change filters, you will be
more likely to do it. There are also a bunch of other problems with attic
installs so they are in compliance with all codes and regulations, like
access, catwalks, lighting, power recepticle, and a bunch of other stuff.
You cute little angry man, I commend you on finding the weak language
in my posting. You have correctly surmised what I've already told
folks, I'm a homeowner, not an HVAC expert. "Here's what I've heard,
take it or leave", or hell, make it a strawman for "expert"
Question for ya--when have I ever professed to be in expert in any
field other than my own? You keep saying it, and I'll keep denying
Exactly. Oscar not only lives, he can read! Woo hoo!
Oscar, I'm a busy man. I don't have time for the search party.
Haven't we been over this?
I appreciate the trip down memory lane though. I haven't gotten to
have discussions like this since 6th grade.
Actually, the good luck was for enduring posts such as yours that were
sure to follow here.
Care to regale us with your offerings of applied science and
intelligence? Do they involve dick jokes and morphing words like
homeowner into "homo"? Come on Oscar, if you want to be clever you
actually have to be clever.
On 05 Oct 2006 20:09:30 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org (Todd H.) wrote:
Please dont make me look up your old posts about how great and
wonderful you think you are with computers and all the other crap you
were blowing your horn on. It was painful then and it would be painful
Here let me help you get started in your search.
I'm sorry I'm going to have to hold you to actual facts not perceived
realities Bubba. I know this'll be a switch for you!
The closest you'll find to me blowing my horn was actually me
commenting on what an idiot you make of yourself with your postings.
"Bubba boy, I've forgotten more about computers than I think you'll
ever know about anything. That may sound like bragging, but put it
in the perspective that based on your posting history, you simply
aren't all that bright and the bar isn't that high. "
But, I imagine that was painful for you.
As you have nothing of any substance to contribute, or any factual,
technical HVAC information, I'm afraid that I must relegate you to my
killfile. I'm sorry you didn't get the responses that you wanted to hear on
you own inquiries. Too bad.
On 06 Oct 2006 08:45:48 -0500, email@example.com (Todd H.) wrote:
How quickly you seem to forget Todd. No suprise though. Your "bulb"
upstairs seems to glow rather dim at times.
Below is your first babbling which I still say is bullshit. Im
suprised you even know where the power button is.
"Sorry to hear of your troubles Bubba.
That happens to be an area where I have expert knowledge and could
tell you some very helpful"
Then of course the next of your babblings was teaching a poster how to
get great advice in the alt.home.repair group.
Then you were teaching a poster how to fix his leaking inground
ductwork by creating a "swale" around the yard etc. etc.
As I said, its painful to watch you go on and Im not really interested
in re-posting your shit again.
Hey, you weren't the guy out in the middle of the road jerkin your
monkey while licking that window, were you?
You're right. I'm almost qualify as a special education case.
Ah, that's the one that set you off. Okay then! If it makes you feel
better and sleep at night I'll say I was bluffing there, and have no
knowledge of computer security. In fact, I don't even own a computer.
Guilty as charged. I was the foolish one to suggest that a swale to
conduct water away from the slab might be one possible solution to
water penetrating under a foundation after a heavy rain. What was I
Oh, come on Bubba, please? The weekend's comin up. Post more post
The only monkey I've been jerkin here lately is you Bubba!
Thanks for playin though. I keep wondering when I can get you to stop
replying to my tormenting of you.
Try to be nice to someone this weekend would ya? Someone might post a
question in here and you might put your knowledge and experience to
work in helping them rather than making your own small minded
insecurity feel better by tearing down all comers.
You can do eeet!
On 06 Oct 2006 14:05:05 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org (Todd H.) wrote:
It took you a while but you seem to be catching on.
You know, I almost belive that. So tell me. Who's helping you type?
Your 8 yr old daughter?
Im sure there isnt a sole out there that could even attempt to try and
figure out what you are thinking. Im also sure, there isnt a sole that
actually gives a rats ass what you are thinking.
It doesnt take a whole lot to keep you entertained, does it?
Hmmm, if that's the case then why have you been hanging at the end of
my leash for the last week or two? You're coming around nicely though.
I'l have you sitting up, begging, barking and rolling over within the
month. Wait till you see how I teach you to sniff your ass and lick
your own balls.
Im playing but you're the one being drug around on a leash. Play nice
or I'll have to swat you with a rolled up newspaper.
Feeling hurt, are you? What's wrong? No one want to play with you in
here? Life must suck to be you.
Alot of the electricity in Ca is produced by burning natural gas. From
the consumer standpoint, which do you think would be cheaper?
As the outdoor temp drops, the supply air from the heat pump also
drops. 95 degree air blowing on 98 degree human beings feels cool to
the skin. Backup heating for a heatpump is usually electric strip
heat. You'll pay big bucks to run electric strip heat in Ca.
Experience tells me senior citizens & little children dislike heat
pumps after experiencing a fossil fuel burning furnace, primarily due
to discharge air temps.
depending on what your electrical rate is, a heat pump can be cheaper
to operate than a gas furnace, up to a certain point.
why dont you install a heat pump with a gas furnace as the air
handler? You get the best of both worlds.
And hell yes, move your furnace/heat pump air handler to the attic.
I did for my home, & it was a piece of cake.
All of the duct work is up there already, except the return air. The
hole they cut in the ceiling to get the furnace up there can be used
for a new ceiling located return air. Patch the hole in the wall
where it is currently located, and free up a closet for storage.
A smart consumer will also replace all of the attic ductwork.
Lucky for you, Ca enacted new legislation effective 1 Oct 2005, which
stipulates the installing contractor MUST perform a pressure test on
the duct system and ensure it is within 15% leakage rate, determind by
the total cfm of your system. The new duct insulation standard is
R-8, which translates to 3" fiberglass (at .75 lb density). Its
pointless to install new equipment and continue to blow the air thru a
leaky, poorly insulated duct system that is effectively cooling or
heating your attic.
Make sure your installing contractor does a load calc and pulls a
building permit, and adhere's to all the new building codes.
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