R-22 vs. R410a (Puron)

Page 2 of 3  


Low side, it's not ALWAYS under pressure during operation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes it is, unless, as I stated in my post, a leak occurs to the point where a vacuum is caused during operation, in which case the charge is fractionated and should be completely removed, the leak repaired, a vacuum pulled, a filter/dryer installed and/or replaced, and a new charge weighed in. Remember, I was responding to Tony's post where he stated that with 410A, even a small leak will cause water to enter the system. This is simply not true.
--
"Poor Canada. So desperate to be the socialist nirvana of multicultural
heaven, that it ends up being used and abused by the dregs of the world.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This is Tony now Mr. Lawblow where did you read that I said even small leak. I did not specified size of leak not that would make any difference how big or small leak is, question here is did system lost charge and gone in to vacuum so that moisture can be pull in. You work on air conditions that low side pressures are let say between 50 and 100 Psi I work on systems that low side pressure may very between 20" vacuum and 150 Psi and lot of cases don't have any safety protection such as low and high pressure cut off! "stupid design yes" but I did not built them or design them. Not long ago I replace two scroll compressor because oil return line crack compressor lost oil and refrigerant and you may use word committed suicide, Why no safeties and customer did not want put one in, I install new compressor but report reads sorry no warrantee. Dear Sir you need to be in business few more years before you can even think of catch in up to my experience. Tony www.cas-environ.com

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But it *IS* true, it can and will happen.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A leak can let water (and air, which is also bad) enter the system if the pressure inside the line is below atmospheric pressure. But how often does that happen?
A pressure of 0 PSI gage (15 PSI absolute) in an R-22 or R-410a system means that the evaporator is either at -40 degrees, or it's dry (no refrigerant flowing). This is not a normal operating condition for an air conditioning system.
In normal operation, the low side pressure is several times atmospheric pressure and any leakage is outwards.
    Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

You better get some current training under your belt, before you start spewing shit about things you don't understand.
Moisture doesn't care if your system is operating under a vacuum or not.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale) wrote \\

Thank You!!
--
"Poor Canada. So desperate to be the socialist nirvana of multicultural
heaven, that it ends up being used and abused by the dregs of the world.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ya, I know, that's what you keep saying. But you can't back it up. Like the second coming of Christ, I'm still waiting...
--
"Poor Canada. So desperate to be the socialist nirvana of multicultural
heaven, that it ends up being used and abused by the dregs of the world.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes you can, it's just a pain in the ass!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

According to the Rheem tech rep, if the lineset is correctly sized, blowing it out with N2 real well and using a little lineset flush is sufficient for a new R-410a system. Contrary to popular belief, R-410a is a more efficient refrigerant, and requires a smaller compressor. The same size of R-22 system in the same efficiency will use twice the amount of refrigerant to do the job. The real catch is if the lineset is correctly sized. As far as reliability, I have recently replaced 35 year old R-22 systems with R-410a....I can't say about the longevity with the new because it hasn't been around that long.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Noon-Air writes:

Please explain.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ok..... 2 heat pumps, 4 ton, 13 SEER...same series......
RPNL-048JAZ 13SEER R-410a heat pump takes 11.5lbs refrigerant and rated 21.8 RLA(measured amp draw on the compressor is 12.8 - 13.2 amps) Copeland compressor # ZP42K5E-PFV-130
RPNE-048JAZ 13SEER R-22 heat pump takes 19.8lbs refrigerant and rated 22.7 RLA (measured amp draw on the compressor is 17.6 - 18.0 amps) Copeland compressor # ZR45K3-PFV-835
The R-410a compressor is also physically almost half the size of the R-22 compressor. Using half the amount of refrigerant, half of the coils(single layer instead of double layer coils in the condenser/heat pump), and a smaller compressor, to give the same or greater efficiency at the same BTU capacity, makes R-410a more efficient......almost twice that of R-22.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Noon-Air" wrote:

You're talking about one model of one manufacturer. Why do they tell us in 410a training classes that 410a is only 5% more efficient than r-22? Are ALL manufacturers going to single row condenser coils or just rheem-ruud?
Your argument is somewhat slanted if you dont also include todays repair costs of 410a vs R22.
like the man said, its all nothing more than a political thing designed to line the pockets of corporate america.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Don't know.... I only handle Rheem/RUUD

The only differance between the 2 is the cost of the refrigerant, OTOH, with the high efficiency R-22 systems needing twice the refrigerant of the R-410a systems, it comes out a wash.

Thats not my problem.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Noon-Air writes:

Really?
So, um, how is it both units ARE THE SAME SEER?
Efficiency is simply the ratio of two scalar physical quantities: heat moved to power consumed. For example, BTUs per watt-hour. Coil or compressor volume is not a factor.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So why is it that the coils size, volume, refrigerant quantity, compressor size, compressor capacity are so much larger on the R-22 systems to get the same efficiency and BTU ratings as the same equipment in R-410a????
I can only tell you what I *SEE* from direct, hands on experience, and what I am learning from the manufacturers tech reps, and engineers.
Richard, Just for grinns, how many of each of these systems have you installed?? What first hand experience do you have with the new systems??
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Noon-Air" wrote:

Why are package unit and split unit cabinet sizes the exact same for r-22 & 410a?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

R-22 uses double row coils and R-410a uses single row coils
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm guessing, but would it be to make the new ones "plug-n-play" replacements for the older units?
LLoyd
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Noon-Air writes:

That's an interesting issue, but it is not a matter of efficiency.

Your observations are fine. Your analysis of those observations is muddled as regards efficiency.
The profit motive tends to overpower critical thinking. Here is some typical blarney from a Peirce-Phelps, Inc Web page that shills for Carrier (http://www.nopay.com/aircond_38TZA.asp ):

Now if it is more efficient, up to 14 SEER, then this implies there is no R-22 system of 14 SEER or more. Which is false.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.