Questions on R410A

Bit of back ground I gave away/sold all my refrigeration related tools 20+ year back.

I now do, pro bono, a triage for the local senior center support program. (it's been over 100 in this are for weeks). The only tools I have are a VOM, Amp meter and a set of Xcellite spin tight hand tools that come in a blue roll up kit. I fix the obvious, tripped breakers, flooded drip pans, diagnose blower/condenser fan problems. Remove bugs from contactors etc.

Anything more is handled by a phone call to the outreach group and occasionally a discussion with the 'real' tech with an eye to getting the cool back on.

I've been talking to the techs that the outreach group pays to fix the real problems. they have tried to explain to me how to property check if the R410A system is low and more so the process used in 'toping off'.

Seems I'm too dense to understand what I've been told.

My question is there a web site, book or other source of information that can give me a better understanding of what's involved from a practical point of view. I figure if I can plow through that I should have a better basis to understand what the techs are trying to tell me.

Reply to
NotMe
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First off, R22 and R410a refrigerants are *NOT* compatible in any way, shape or form, neither are the 2 different oils. Systems should *NEVER* need "topped off". If it does, there is a leak that needs fixed. R410a is charged as a liquid, not a vapor. You will need a thermister temperature clamp that is compatible with your VOM to take actual refrigerant line temps, you will need a gauge manifold and hoses that will handle the higher pressures of R410a, you will need an R410a PT chart, and you will need to learn how to charge by subcooling and superheat.

"beer can cold" will cause all kinds of problems with nuisance safety trips and can destroy a compressor in short order, not to mention the lack of humidity control and much higher power bills.

If the data plates on the equipment do not specify specific subcooling or superheat, a good rule for expansion valve systems is 10F - 12F subcooling and 12F - 15F superheat. If you have one of the very rare R410a systems or an R22 system with a piston, then 20F superheat is the norm.

All this being said, check with your local supply houses and ask about R410a cert classes, as well as getting your EPA card. so you can purchase said refrigerant.

Reply to
Steve

I don't know of any such. If you'd want to add an infrared thermometer and some electrical tape, I can give you a few directions, things to check.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I now do, pro bono, a triage for the local senior center support program. (it's been over 100 in this are for weeks). The only tools I have are a VOM, Amp meter and a set of Xcellite spin tight hand tools that come in a blue roll up kit. I fix the obvious, tripped breakers, flooded drip pans, diagnose blower/condenser fan problems. Remove bugs from contactors etc.

Anything more is handled by a phone call to the outreach group and occasionally a discussion with the 'real' tech with an eye to getting the cool back on.

I've been talking to the techs that the outreach group pays to fix the real problems. they have tried to explain to me how to property check if the R410A system is low and more so the process used in 'toping off'.

Seems I'm too dense to understand what I've been told.

My question is there a web site, book or other source of information that can give me a better understanding of what's involved from a practical point of view. I figure if I can plow through that I should have a better basis to understand what the techs are trying to tell me.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Understand that from the get go.

I have the EPA card from years back but have NO INTENTION of doing the work. My trust is understanding how it's done. Folk I've spoken to seem to know what they are doing. The problem is on my end not theirs.

Reply to
NotMe

I'd appreciate anything you could offer. I just want to understand the 'how to' not that I'm going to do this work.

BTW I'm likely to ask a few really dumb question.

Reply to
NotMe

No worries, I've asked a few dumb questions in my life.

When I check refrigeration equipment, I put some electrical tape on the various tubes, because IR thermometers don't read shiny metals very well. Some on the discharge line, to the top of the condensor. Some, on the filter drier. Some on the suction line.

When the equipment is running, I like to see discharge temperatures between

150 and 210. That tells me that the compressor is pushing heat.

I like to see the filter drier "not much" hotter than the ambient temperature. That tells me that the condensor is reasonably clean, and getting good air flow.

I like to see the suction line noticably cooler than the ambient, which tells me that there is a good refrigerant charge, and the system is helping cool the compressor.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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BTW I'm likely to ask a few really dumb question.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

And you still don't have a clue

IR thermometers are not accurate enough

LL temp?? compressor temp??.... completely clueless.

Really??

This tells me that you really don't know what your doing, and have absolutely no experience with R410a, which is what the OP was asking about.

Reply to
Steve

I don't have a clamp on temp sensor but I do have a dual input thermometer with Velcro straps for the thermocouples. It's handy to slip one of the tiny probes under the pipe insulation to read the temperature there. I sort of wonder what the ozone huggers are gonna do next to make air conditioning more difficult. O_o

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

The rumor mill is saying minimum federal standard will increase in 2015 from

13SEER to 14 or 15SEER. This is not a problem or issue for me as 98% of the time I am installing 15SEER systems.
Reply to
Steve

If by some weird chance, Obama is not un-elected, get ready for solar and windmill powered AC systems. Except for government of course, the mucky mucks are going to stick with what actually works. O_o

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

On the way home from church, I was listening to the Christian radio. They were talking about gossip, back biting, and put other folks down. Minutes later, I'm reading this. God must have a sense of humor. Or, some serious irony.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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This tells me that you really don't know what your doing, and have absolutely no experience with R410a, which is what the OP was asking about.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Not sure I want to know! They won't be happy till we're all Fred Flinstone, and outlaw flush toilets, and go to community outhouses.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I don't have a clamp on temp sensor but I do have a dual input thermometer with Velcro straps for the thermocouples. It's handy to slip one of the tiny probes under the pipe insulation to read the temperature there. I sort of wonder what the ozone huggers are gonna do next to make air conditioning more difficult. O_o

TDD

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Pride goeth before a fall.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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The rumor mill is saying minimum federal standard will increase in 2015 from

13SEER to 14 or 15SEER. This is not a problem or issue for me as 98% of the time I am installing 15SEER systems.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Pride got nothing to do with fact.

Reply to
Steve

"The Daring Dufas">>

If you have enough land/sun solar power absorption systems work well. We had access to an old old 45ft sailboat (built in the 30's I think) with an solar sbsortin system and the heat sink was sea water. Kept most things cold (think beer) and we had a good bit of ice. Some of the places we sailed ice was worth more than money and was used for some really neat trades.

Reply to
NotMe

There is a YouTube video of an interesting solar powered AC system of 10 tons think but it takes up a lot of space and I don't know what sort of maintenance is required to keep it running. Mo stuff, mo money. ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

You offered your own opinion. Instead of criticizing another poster, how about you offer a detailed opinion? Afraid someone will say you're wrong?

This group has been trashed by folks with no other agenda than to criticize other posters. There is a need to take out the trash. John

Reply to
John Rhosos

Steve did write, easrlier. Said the OP needs thermistor clamps, and gave some superheat numbers. This may or may not be at all useful. The OP is a retired tech, and may know some of the "how to". My gut sense is that Steve is throwing out some obsure specs, without actually answering the OP question. More "see how wonderful I am, I know all of this, but I won't tell" writing.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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You offered your own opinion. Instead of criticizing another poster, how about you offer a detailed opinion? Afraid someone will say you're wrong?

This group has been trashed by folks with no other agenda than to criticize other posters. There is a need to take out the trash. John

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

[ sig omitted ]

SM must think he acquires indulgences from Moroni for every top-posted missive.

He should learn the usenet RFC's, particularly the part where the signature should follow a line containing only "-- ", so it doesn't get replicated in the replies. However, that would reduce his chance for indulgences.

scott

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

I take all input for whatever value I can get from it even if it's just another path to follow.

Bit more back ground. I'm a long retried engineer (EE) that worked my way through engineering school doing a lot of interesting jobs that taught me a little bit about many things. So I still have a lot of interest in a lot of things all just for fun. Basically if it ain't broke given enough time I *can* break it ... I will learn a lot in the process.

Some years back I had emergency open heart surgery. Part of the outcome of that (other than staying alive) is the loss of some cognative ability and motor skills.

For this and other reasons I no longer do more than a triage on broken stuff/systems. The really simple stuff I can fix. The rest I leave to those who are sharper than me and more important have the right toys.

Since I can no longer, safely, do the heavy work I'd like to get back to the point where I can 'talk/discuss' a good fix.

Reply to
NotMe

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