Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??

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I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, two acres of which are cleared and developed. I have areas away from the house area in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. Ideally, I would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400 feet away from the house.
I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of "T's" add several branches (hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas. But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it all seems so "temporary."
I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something.
Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ?
thanks !!
James
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On 6/29/2011 7:30 PM, James Nipper wrote:

Poly pipe is great for underground lines. It doesn't lay flat very well so I'm not sure how it would work above ground. Here's a link: http://www.aquascience.net/pipe/index.cfm?idU2
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A small air compressor can blow the lines clear of water for the winter. Fifteen pounds of pressure should do the job. I use a quick release adapter for the compressor and the adapter attached to a short water hose. Just make sure the end of the line is open for drainage. I just use the underground lines just for watering the plants around my home, not in distant areas.
The biggest problem you are going to have is water pressure at the end of 500 feet depending on the pressure you already have. An extra water tank could be used that is under greater pressure than the household pressure could solve that problem if needed, but not a cheap option. Or slowly fill up a cistern at the end of the line and use pump to water the area needed.
Again depending on your home water pressure, those extra methods may not be needed.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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I like the change. I will watch the fireworks from a friends boat on Lake St Clair on the 4th. Happy 4th of July :)
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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RBM wrote:

You don't say where this water is coming from. Is it town water, well water, what?
If you are laying pipe then poly pipe is what you need, it will be the cheapest choice for such a distance. All the fittings you would ever want are available. It can be laid underground if the ground isn't too rocky. The quickest method is with a ripper/feeder on a tractor. This is a blade that cuts a slit trench that has a metal tube behind it, you feed the poly down the tube into the slit as the tractor moves at walking pace, then you tred the slit down and it's done.
OTOH it can also be laid along fences on top of the ground. If going to this much trouble don't do it in 12mm (1/2 inch pipe) but somewhere around 32mm (1 1/4 ") to 40mm (1 1/2 "). This solution depends on what is pumping the water and how much rise or fall there is along the length. The joints in polypipe are easily undone to allow draining by gravity, ground slope permitting.
A quite different solution: what about saving water adjacent to the area that you want to water? I am thinking of a tank collecting water from the roof of an outbuilding or a small dam/pond in a gully.
David
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It would help to know what water volume, how often, and what climate.     If you'e on a well your system may not be capable of raising water very high so it would help to know your topography. Six acres is not very much area, if essentially square then the distance from center to the perimeter is not very far. If there is a centrally located high point you might consider erecting a tank, either on the ground or on a tower... fill the tank with a pump and let gravity work with hose(s) to reach your various watering points. Personally for watering a few plants here and there I'd fit a wagon with a tank and with a tractor tow the water wagon to whatever needs watering... that is exactly how I water my plants... if you ever tried to drag a couple of hundred feet of hose, especially filled with water you'd soon give that up. And attempting to bury pipe in forested/raw land without heavy excavating equipment is practically impossible.
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Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

I have done the wagon thing, it is a pain in the... Takes time to fill them up and time to drain it. I however typically use the lengthy hose. I have four one hundred foot lite weight hoses with quick connectors. I mean do not get the heavy duty hoses because they are heavy. I can set up the hoses and take them down in less than thirty minutes. I often use a soaker hose or soaker wand at the receiving end because pressure is diminished for spraying.
One thing about lite weight hoses. Do not leave the hose set up in the hot sun with the pressure on and water not flowing. The water will heat up and bust the hose on a hot day. But lite weight hoses are easy to carry or put in a garden wagon.
One can rent a walk behind "Ditch Witch" for digging trenches. Four hundred feet would take eight hours depending on terrain. Some cheap "Ditch Witches" can beat you up at the end of the day, good models will not.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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wrote:

Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter matters.
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Brooklyn1 wrote:

A warning to all, Brooklyn1 has a habit of making confident pronouncements that are wrong.
The friction and hence head loss depends on both the length and diameter (and the number of fittings and joins and the change in level). Particularly in a thin pipe a long run (say 500ft) will have greater head loss than a short one (say 50ft) using the same source. The difference is less noticeable on large diameter pipe.
If you want to do the sums yourself see here:
http://www.polypipe.com.au/images/PPI%20small%20farm%20design.pdf
David
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Prove it.
You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases... fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure... all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles.
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Brooklyn1 wrote:

Try the equation for pressure drop in lines here:
http://hydraulik.empass.biz /
or the graph here:
http://www.polypipe.com.au/images/PPI%20small%20farm%20design.pdf

When somebody challenges what you say instead of reaching for the personal insults you would look less foolish and juvenile if you did some research to see if just maybe you have made a mistake. It's not like this was the first time. You could also try an apology now and then if you have made an honest mistake - I won't be holding my breath waiting.
David
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Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the water and the pressure will decrease.
Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can "increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive.
My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to maintain that pressure for really long runs.
One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for yourself.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R

The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change.

You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells, not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers 12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever else requires large volumes of water.
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Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

True only if the tail is lower than the head. For gravity fed drip irrigation what you say is true. However, most cases the person will be standing at the end of the line two or three feet higher to water the plants. I have run the water hoses for long distances and it can be done. However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure.
The Original Poster wanted Taps at the end for watering plants. But like many Posters the OP rarely responds back for feedback.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools/sprinkler_prod.html
The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au /
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That is something I did not believe existed. I will look for a local version first. Thank for the information on that. The soaker hoses are nice but have their limitations.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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and so does shooting water into the air. You must have water to burn.
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- Billy

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My well has never gone dry and have let it runs for hours on end. However, I do not use the hose that often. Just between rains and when the rain barrels run dry. My barrels are now dry as of today. I am hoping for rain soon. Only a 30% chance of rain for today and tomorrow. I estimate running my well, filters, salt and power cost no more than twenty dollars per month.
Michigan is not like California, fresh water is cheap and plentiful here. The reason people do not like Michigan is the long cold winters.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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wrote in message

Given that Australia is the driest inhabited continent, we tend to have a LOT of solutions to water problems. Also given that our population is sparse in comparison to other lands, those solutions tend to be low tech as the support networks aren't there for professionals to make a motza out of support.
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wrote:

It's called laminar flow <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow>
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