papaver

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does anybody know for certain what kind of poppies are legal and wha kind are not in the us? i read in a past post that poppies are legal t grow as long as you dont go making heroin from them, but is tha definately true? i planted some poppy seeds, and it has been about four months. i thin that blooming time is near, and i dont want to get arrested. what i the deal with poppies - agnatha314 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk
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20:55:36 GMT:

Poppies are legal even here in the US (origin of the drug war). Seeds are legal too. In fact, George H.W. Bush failed a drug test when he was VP under Reagan because he had eaten a poppyseed bagel that day.
The actions to produce opium are pretty specific. You have to slice open the seed pod to make the plant produce a decent amount of latex. As long as you don't do that, you're in no danger of arrest.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
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dated Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:55:36 GMT:
. In fact, George H.W. Bush failed a drug test when he was VP

Do you have a citation for this? It sounds like an urban legend to me.
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I don't know about GW, but when I was in the Army, I was specifically warned against eating food poppy seeds because it gave a positive on the random drug tests.
See: http://www.snopes.com/toxins/poppy.htm
billo
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wrote:

I'm not questioning the fact that it may distort a drug test. I just can't believe that the Vice President of the US is made to pee into a cup for drug testing.
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I could imagine him agreeing to pee the cup in the spirit of "To prove it's a good thing, even I will do it. Then every damnone of you will do it or you'e fired, & any who don't pass the test will be shot dead in the white house rose garden."
What appears to be a fact found in Bush's very strange non-service service record in the Texas Air National Guard was his suspension for refusal to take a mandatory drug test -- this at a time when he was known to be a raging alcoholic, which frequently goes hand in hand with other recreational drug abuses, so it's easy to imagine why he'd prefer suspension over getting tested. Suspending him was hardly punishment from his point of view, since he almost never showed up for duty anyway.
See text of London Times artical "Bush Dodged Drug Test" <http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a 00/6/17/220615>
I suspect he could pass it now, not that I think his synpses are all hooked up right from his past substance abuses. I mean, either he's lost a few too many connecting threads in the old noodle, or he's just plane evil.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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snipped-for-privacy@netscapeSPAM-ME-NOT.net (paghat) writes in article
-0800:

Sorry Vox I don't have a citation. Maybe it is an urban legend. I vaguely remember reading in the papers that his very first test came back positive and he re-took it. I'm pretty sure I heard the poppy seed account here on Usenet.

Exactly. That was in the 1980s when drug testing was new and controversial, and conservative politicians were trying to prove that it didn't violate anybody's civil liberties by doing it themselves. The VP was actually the only person in the white house *not* in danger of being fired if he refused Reagan's order.

To be clear, the poppy seed anecdote is about W's father.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
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wrote:

me.
can't
drug
He's just plane evil.
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No, it "appears to be" bullshit propaganda by people who get their jollies out of the politics of personal destruction.

Quite the spin. There is no evidence whatsoever that he missed the physical exam because of the drug test, or in fact that he failed to take any required exam. Having been in the Army for 8 years, having dodged a couple of such exams myself and knowing a zillion other people who also did, I know there are a number of reasons why people avoid these things. *I* avoided the exam once or twice because I always had trouble making my height/weight requirement, and managed to get assigned elsewhere on a couple of time I needed another week or so to drop those last couple of pounds. I know a number of pilots who had temporary health issues (such as getting blood pressure under control) that would have grounded them had they been examined who avoided the exam until the issues were resolved.
And, of course, the accusation itself is false. Records that have been released by the Administration include his medical records, which include the drug tests.
Unlike Kerry, of course, who has refused to release his medical records. But then, this kind of blatant attack based on innuendo and lie is only appropriate when attacking Bush, no? It would be *wrong* to infer anything from Kerry's reticence, right?
billo
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wrote:

service
Had it been anyone else, refusing to take a physical would have been an act of self destruction. Now we are all paying the price for letting a spoiled druggy turned born again fanatic lead into the darkness.
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Yep. He has admitted that even his father's advice is not wanted -- the only other president to wage a war in that region isn't expert enough for the little Shrub -- & the reason is because he claims he has the advice of his "Higher Father" & does not need to listen to ANYone else. This shows him to be a complete lunatic who thinks he's Jesus talking back to that mere mortal Joseph. If God doesn't speak to him, he ain't listening to no one else!
"Who cares what YOU think." -Shrubby, 4 July 2001
"They misunderestimated me." -George Dumbya, 6 november 2000
Here's a lovely page of Shrub facts: http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case." -Queen George II, 30 january 2000
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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wrote:

to
act
spoiled
I find it disturbing that George Bush's god and Dick Cheney are virtually indistinguishable.
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snipped-for-privacy@radix.net (Bill Oliver) wrote in wrote:

Ha that's a good one. Kenneth Starr has faded from memory, so the "politics of personal destruction" is now taboo.

There IS evidence that he skipped the drug test BECAUSE of the exam. Unfortunately, it's buried with a bunch of WMDs in the Iraqi desert.
But as far as failing to take ANY required exam, what part of "suspended from flying for failing to take a required flight physical" or "As he was not flying, there was no reason for him to take the flight exam" is unclear? If he knew he wasn't going to be flying, why would he care if he failed the physical or not? If all he was doing in the Alabama Air National Guard was yutzing around reading manuals, you'd think he'd find the time to show up for a physical so that the government would know if he were ready in the unlikely event that he'd be called upon to serve. Why didn't he fulfill his duty, take the required physical and be done with it? Not a very good soldier, huh? Makes for an even better Commander-in-Chief. Supposedly he managed to show up for the dentist at least, which is good when your only duties are smiling for photo-ops which are strangely missing.
As you are clearly looking for some "spin" to discredit, here is the TRUE interpretation of the facts: Instead fulfilling his commitments to protect the nation, Bush choose to skip his physical because he knew full well the only thing he'd ever be guarding was a box of paper clips. As a bonus, he would not have worry about having his coke habit exposed by the new drug tests that his buddies slyly warned him about.

It's so good to know that military is operating such a tight ship. Luckily, you guys are not actually in the business of defending anything (except for war industry profit margins), in spite of the good intentions of honest soldiers, otherwise we might be worried. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be a problem. I know some airline pilots who skip their mandatory vision tests, and ship captains who skip their sobriety tests until they can clear things up. The important thing is to have a clean record, (especially in case daddy is in position to buy a presidency for you some day).

Yeah, selected records from a selected time frame, not to be removed from a specific room in a specific building.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/13/elec04.prez.bush.texas.records /

Obviously not the ones he skipped or shredded.

And what exactly would releasing Kerry's personal medical files prove? Does his family have a history of drug abuse, too?
But anyway: http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/04/21/k erry_to_release_records?pg=2
Enjoy looking for jollies.
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:55:36 GMT, agnatha3141

The only one is Oriental, but I grow them and nobody arrests me. Catalogs sell them everywhere
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opined:

sell
I am constantly amazed at the amount of misinformation that gets disseminated through this group.
Oriental poppies (Papaver orientalis) are NOT illegal to own or grow and are not the source of opium. Papaver somniferum, aka the breadseed, sleep, peony-flowered or opium poppy IS illegal, but enforcement is, at the best, sporadic and half-hearted. The seeds are very commonly sold by a number of seed supply houses and are routinely included in wildflower seed mixes, poppy starts are frequently found in nurserires and someone somewhere is growing them in bulk, otherwise there would be no poppyseed pastries and bagels.
Since I read somewhere that it takes like an acre or more to produce any measurable quantity of opium (just a recollection - don't quote as fact), growing a few plants in your garden will hardly be considered the next major crime wave and hopefully the police and DEA have more important issues to attend to.
I have heard of plants being removed from gardens - whether by the authorities or kids experimenting was never clear - but I have never heard of anyone arrested for growing a few of them in a garden setting.
pam - gardengal
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opined:

Thanks for the attack. I wouldn't expect that from you to me.

I meant P. somniferum. Sorry. I won't do that again.

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P.somniferum grows as freely as a weed locally, but is most attractive, and hence left to bloom and go to seed and thus goes on and on.. From fifty plants' fruits I tried to bleed off the sap. This eventually dried to a speck that would have caused no problem to a constipated mouse!! It tasted awful and wouldn't respond to heat~~not that I knew how it should have responded! I was sixteen and have never bothered since. I have seen the seeds being collected but don't know if these were for cooking or scattering. They are not illegal to grow here 'without intent'. Eg. It is not illegal to carry a crowbar; unless it is being carried to use to break into a property!!. Best Wishes Brian
opined:

Catalogs
are
major
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A friend used hers for home-made laudenum. The potency was doubtful since she grew the poppies in Seattle & it's the wrong sort of climate to develop the opiating alkaloids, gorgeous though her poppy garden was. But since laudenum is mostly alcohol anyway, she got roaring drunk on it at times, & swore it was a better experience than being drunk on wine or brandy. I for a while planned to get drunk a few times with her, as laudenum is what most of the major & greatest opium-addict authors were doing, as opposed to smoking it pure, so they were drunkards as much as opium addicts. Since the classic opium authors are so excellent I wanted to do laudenum out of admiration for their art. But being a teetotlar, it was just too big a decision to decide to drink anything at all, & the more research I did about it the less wise it seemed to be. It helps to be stupid about things if you wanna be an addict, or you're bound to change your mind.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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Quite right! Though I trust you're not leaving out your own ability to disseminate misinformation, as you do it as readily as Escapee or any of us! As for example:

Papaver somniferum is legal in the majority of countries, including the United States; some of the few countries that ban them do so because they are noxious weeds or could displace native poppies (they're illegal to propogate in Finland & Norway). In the USA, what the purchaser does with the poppies is what defines legality or illegality. As ornamentals, legal. To attempt to extract alkaloids for use as a drug, illegal, even though opium poppies grown in temperate climates do not develop noticeable amounts of these alkaloids. To sell them with instructions on how to make laudenum, illegal -- though you can SEPARATELY sell a book about how to make laudenum thanks to freedom of the press. There are many American companies that specilize in providing seeds, plants, extracts, & powders of legal herbal intoxicants, & also sell books & pamphlets on how to use them, always with the disclaimer not to do that, or this information is for historical or ethnobotanical interest only. They skirt the law in ways the seed companies do not, as the myriad seed companies know they're selling opium poppies to innocuous gardeners who'd be surprised how many of the things they plant could get them high.
If Papaer somniferum was illegal in the US, hundreds of above-board nurseries wouldn't be selling it, nor a couple dozen other potentially hallucinogenic plants, many of which require far less preparation to get high with. We live under a government that puts people in prison for selling bongs for crine out loud, because laws against interstate sales of bongs DO exist, & enforcement is pretty nasty. If the poppies were illegal, policing agencies wouldn't be going "Oh who cares about that, we're not enforcing it!" Rather, nurseries & our personal gardens would be raided every day to root out the Evil Weed, & nosy neighbors who never liked you or your yappy dog would have you hauled off for growing the Wrong Flowers, just for the fun of seeing you go to jail.
Temperate-grown opium poppies are not even as potently psychoactive as are morning glory seeds. The law fortunately realized long ago that attempting to regulate moderately hallucinogenic plants was a lost cause, or even cinnamen & nutmeg would end up banned from the kitchen cabinets, as would be hundreds of everyday garden plants, & half of southern california would have to be agent-oranged to death in order to get rid of jimson & a hundred other native plants.
So it is the use that is legislated rather than the species. Likewise it is illegal to buy & sell monkshoods for medicinal purposes, but you can still buy monkshoods; & it's illegal to buy or sell daffodils for the purpose of removing the germination to get stoned, but daffodils are otherwise legal, just like morning glories & poppies.

One rather famous case of this happening in Mount Baker, Seattle, to a H'mong family, resulted in the police department making a public apology to the whole H'mong community for having profiled H'mongs as from the Golden Triangle. The police apologized not only because the poppies would've been legal even if they HAD been Papaver somniferum, but in this case a lone officer had taken it upon his own authority to tramp through a garden to pull up the "evidence" -- thereby destroying an elderly woman's ocra patch.
-paggers

--
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"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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Yes, they are illegal to grow around here, a few years back there was quite a story in the local paper about the police raiding peoples' gardens (one woman over in Scituate was actually arrested, at 86 years old, and I have her plants growing in my yard). I think it was an overzealous sherriff or something who decided to come down hard on all us opium-growing gardeners ;->. Didn't get anywhere, the courts threw out the cases, and they've left us alone since then. But rest assured, it is illegal to grow opium poppies, they posted the applicable laws and I have the clippings around here, somewhere.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
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