OT: Things to do before the inauguration

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (IntarsiaCo) wrote in

If you're invested in right-wing America or if you are the kind of person who is willing to believe that such things as 'supported blah blah' constitutes an 'accomplishment', then yes, it's quite an impressive list.
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People like Dubya for the same reason they like having a bowel movement.

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I think it's very positive how despite all the stress he must be under, getting so many Americans killed & all, that he has managed even so to stay in recovery & not be the drunken cokehead he was in college.
-paghat the ratgirl
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"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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" I think it's very positive how despite all the stress he must be under, getting so many Americans killed & all, that he has managed even so to stay in recovery & not be the drunken cokehead he was in college."
Or has he? He looks like a drunken cokehead to me.

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I don't think its as simple as all that, though a lot of people would like to paint it that way.
I haven't seen many of the anti-Bush crowd say they honestly felt that Kerry was going to be their shining knight leading the world into a peaceful and prosperous future. One major indicator of this is that I haven't seen ANY anguish over Kerry missing his chance to lead. Most people that supported him did so because he was not-Bush, and they're now complaining because Bush is still in power, not that Kerry isn't.
In much the same way many people that supported Bush didn't see Kerry as a viable alternative. I'm not going to go around and say I really really like Bush, though I don't doubt there are those that do. IMO Kerry would not do as good a job dealing with all the issues of the day. Not much of an endorsement of our political process I'm afraid, but its the one we have.

You'd think that most gardeners would be nature lovers, yet there are some that chop down their trees and rip up their shrubs and put lawns in their place. There's all sorts of gardeners
I don't feel its correct that the Bush administration is openly hostile to the environment, but I won't present a lot of arguments against that here. There is more to this then just big business vs the environment and should be a topic all on its own.
I also don't believe that a population that junks up things the way we do really deep down cares as much about it as they say they do. The environment is a lot closer then the arctic or the nearest rainforest -- its right outside the door.
IMO the whole issue needs to be reopened to decide what is right and what is wrong, and what we can do to preserve the environment. We will never be able to go back to they way things were, and we need to create policies and make plans that are rational, achievable, and able to work in the world we have. I don't think that's really been done since the 70s, but it would be a hard thing to do. There just seems to be too much anger around for that to happen.

Yes, we are just like everybody else. I think Bush is proud of being an American, and is disappointed that we don't have more support around the world, but I really haven't seen that "we are better then everyone else" attitude.
He has the attitude that he is going to do what he thinks is right, and to hell with what the rest of the world wants. that's not the same thing, but I can see how that could create that perception. I don't know of any other reason you would feel this way.

Again I don't see it.
Your views and beliefs have the same weight as any christians, and your vote counts just as much. But all people have to make their decisions based on their beliefs, whether they are atheists or christians. Some of the arguments I've had are with posters that seem to imply christians should check their beliefs at the door and act as de facto atheists. People can't do that and shouldn't. Everyone has to work within their beliefs and do what they feel is right.
Religion has always been part of the political process, but this is the first time that I can recall it being an object of fear. There are no laws being passed that promote christianity as the state religion, and I sincerely believe this is a misguided fear.

I don't doubt that I'll be flamed again, but I don't mind. :)
I'm not much of a communicator, so I don't know if I've answered your questions. My main point has been that things aren't as black and white as some are trying to make them. Few voted for Bush because they are mean, evil, racist, stupid, ignorant or just love to be at war.
I don't agree with some of the things you have concerns about, but you've been one of the few that have actually tried to have a rational discussion about any of these topics. You asked some reasonable questions, you didn't shout or insult me, and I attempted to reply in kind. At least I hope I did.
There are far too many lines drawn in the sand, too much anger and intolerance, and too many people that aren't willing to listen.
Swyck
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The WAYS in which Bush is hostile to the environment are often too complicated to fit into your typical TV news story, and probably too complex for your average walkin' around slob to understand. Example:
"Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops."
Never mind concerns about eating such crops. That's probably the least risky part of the issue. What do you personally know about the other risks?
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to
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There's another take, but it's only slightly different.
1) Bush's energy policy was hacked together using advisors whose identity he has kept secret. However, this is OK. You can rest assured that even though these advisors were probably the CEOs of major utilities, they have your best interests at heart. The reason for the secrecy is very simple: They're busy guys, and they were afraid of being inundated with thank-you notes from people like you and I.
2) The fact that Bush won't discuss who advises him is not indicative of evil. Rather, you are expected to have complete faith in him. Like the emperor of Japan, Bush has a direct connection to a deity.
3) The fact that the fish you catch are probably loaded with mercury isn't important. You're probably too busy to take them home and cook them anyway. You should be more concerned about the health of coal-burning utilities in the midwest.
This is all pretty simple.
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Thank you for your reply. I think I am beginning to understand. It appears that you value leadership and authenticity above other issues when you are choosing a president. It appears that you don't give much weight to any specific issue but are looking at the candidates as businessmen and not much more. You want a president who can run the business of the nation and not looking for someone to advance some sort of moral or political agenda. I think I can wrap my head around that.
Is your lack of emotional attachment because you have not been negatively or positively affected by the government? Is it because your personal interests are more paramount to you than some abstract concept of government?
For me, I cringe every time I see Bush's face because I fear his power. He has the ability to create a hostile atmosphere for gays in this country; he has the power to ruin our national park system which I hold dear; he has the power to give government control over what I see, hear, and say. And he has taken steps to do all of the above.
I also worry deeply about the plight of the poor in our great country. I see a huge divide between the haves and the have-nots. With a church every two miles, why does America have homeless, or children who die from starvation? Where are all the christians and what are they doing about it? Is organized religion just a social club?
I cannot look at the two candidates and say there is not much difference because for me, there is a huge difference. And it mainly has to do with how power is used. I understand the argument that John Kerry was no Bill Clinton. Yes, I agree and I wanted Howard Dean myself. I liked Dean for some of the same reasons you liked Bush. He appears to be a talented leader willing to make the tough choices and he appears to be authentic. Kerry was just another Washington insider.
However, I believe Kerry would use the power of the presidency in a more responsible manner. He believes the constitution is an incredibly important and well designed document as do I. Bush seems to think that the constitution is a hindrance to his personal beliefs and has tried in several frightening ways to remove citizens rights instead of protecting them. Bush also forces his religious beliefs on the entire country by nominating religiously conservative judges, by preventing abortion clinics from receiving federal funds, and by preventing teachers from giving kids the facts about sex. I could go on for days about my dislikes for Bush's leadership style but others have posted great links which summarize it better than I ever could.
I guess the difference between us is that I feel much more personally affected by the president's power. If you feel up to it, would you expand a little on why you don't. I think that is the hardest thing for me to understand.
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