Grass to garden -- what's the best approach?

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wrote:

Are you Scots? :) Me, too.
What zone are you in? Are these plants being put out now?
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:44:42 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior

I'm in Texas USDA Zone 8b. Last average frost is in two weeks. I have not planted anything out yet, but the flats are out there and I can bring them in if it gets below 45. I have some S. greggii and lambs ears, etc. Now is still early enough for that, but it was 87 degrees yesterday and 82 today. We call that cool! Brrrrr.
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It greatly depends on where you live. We cannot maintain hostas in Texas. No part of Texas with the exception of possibly Houston which has acidic soil and is humid and rainy often.
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Sorry. Mint.
And I don't live near anyone else. My dogs and my mint and my horses are here purely for my enjoyment.
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:43:37 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior

You know, pennyroyal is actually proven to repel fleas and is low growing. It's also not AS invasive as peppermint and has a stronger fragrance. I believe it only gets to about six inches. That may be an option for you.
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Why are you asking me? What does your local dog ordinance say? If the law is on your side, then talk to the law. A photograph of the deed being done is good proof of who the culprit is, too.
One dipshit owner does not make all dogs and all owners scoundrels.
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This example has nothing to do with dog ordinances. And, there's no reason (or easy way) to photograph plants covered in piss. The issue is this: If a property owner asks you not to do something on their property, you do not ask why. You obey. If you disagree with what I've just said, then I have the right to urinate on your dog, in your mail box, or anything on that property, and there's nothing you can do about it.
With me so far?
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Of course it does. If there is a law against it, then evoke the law.

Get the dog lifting it's leg. Let the police extroplate from there.

Is there a law against asking why?

No, I believe that is classified as assault AND indecent exposure. Do so and you'd be in much, much, MUCH more trouble than the dog owner. But, hey, don't let me stop you from trying it. Get back to us on how that works out for you.

No. Guess not.
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Our dog ordinances say dog owners must clean up after their animals. Not likely with dog piss.

Yeah. I'll stand outside all day with a camera. :-)

Of course not. But, the laws against trespassing do not require that the landowner explain anything. You know that.

Assault? Not really. Got a car you love? What if I walk onto your property and start spray painting it a new color? Why would I do this? Because it was a convenient place to stop and paint a car! No different than doing what's convenient for your dog. Now, you'll say the car is damaged, but it's not. It'll still do what a car needs to do. The pissed-on plants may not, or they might, so let's choose the latter and call the two situations equal.
See what you're doing here? You're trying to twist your interpretation of law (and common decency) to suit a particular type of pet. You're doing this because the dog needs to walk, and it needs to crap & piss while being walked. Therefore, you have made behavioral adjustments because of the dog. Another way to describe this is training. You have been trained by your pet.
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Pissing on someone is assault and public indecency. Ask a policeman. Or, as I suggested, try it. Get back to me after you make bail.

This is truly bizarre.

*I'm* twisting logic? You're talking about pissing on people and in mailboxes and vandalizing cars and *I'M* twisting logic? My my.
To reiterate a point you seem unable to grok: my animals stay on my property. I'm sorry your neighbor's animals don't do that but, truth be told, I feel much more sorry for your neighbors AND their animals.
Nice talking to you but it won't happen again in the future.
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Assault? A plant is a living thing. Why isn't pissing on a plant considered assault? Can I piss on your dog? Is your dog more precious than my plants?
Indecency? A dog's penis is no more or less "indecent" than a human's. What's with the double standard?

Why bizarre? Let's say your hobby is restoring antique cars. You spend many hours lovingly working on them, and there's never enough time. My hobby is gardening. I spend as much time gardening as you do working on your antique cars. If your dog can piss on my hobby, why can't I piss on yours?

I'm twisting logic? I've just taught you how you've created an imaginary fantasy world of laws and morals to adjust for the antisocial needs of dogs. Your world conveniently ignores actual laws which are the same everywhere in America and in many Western countries. You're silly.

I understand that YOUR animals stay on your property. The point here is when some say "I'm a good dog owner - my dogs don't roam the neighborhood without me", they're not quite correct. Even on a leash, many "good dog owners" still don't get it.
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Then get some of those little signs that stake in the ground that say "NO PETS" or "PLEASE DON'T PEE HERE" (they exist, I've seen them). Put them at the edge of your flower bed to help educate all those dog owners who don't know that people like you get really upset about this. The signs are non-confrontational and require no active participation from you.
--
Tara


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Got a hose? Water the damned plant and get over it. Ordinances regarding dog waste are for feces, and you know that. Spend your life being superior, complaining and judging, or water your garden and get over it.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
  Click to see the full signature.
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If I wanted to garden in mud, I'd be out there during rain storms. Also, one dog's scent attracts the strays to the same spot.
Mind if I stop by and remove your windows, just because I feel like it?
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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:58:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

I'm with you, but not with the level of anger you have about it. Then again, I let rats live on my property and wouldn't think of killing them.
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wrote:

It's not anger. Frankly, it's an interesting legal debate, but for some people, that involves some heavy lifting. They don't realize that in Supreme Court hearings, the justices use hypothetical ideas that seem outrageous, but they're important for purposes of pushing peoples' legal thinking to extremes. The same thing goes on with dog owners. Was it you who asked earlier why someone didn't deserve an explanation about why I wanted no dogs on the property? A judge might ask you this: If you're hiking, and see lots of signs saying "No Trespassing", do you disobey the signs because they don't contain a reason why?
I find the discussion very peaceful.
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:51:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

I don't believe I said someone didn't deserve and explanation...
I do know if I was really annoyed by something and I needed to sit with a camera around the usual time this person walks their dog, I'd do it.
There are laws which protect you as well as me, but the downside of making reports on people is that their animals usually wind up in the pound and euthanized.
It's never the fault of the animal. This discussion comes up now and then in rec.gardens. Nothing is ever resolved. Have you actually asked this person not to allow their dog to pee on your plants? If so, what did that person say? On the other hand, you can hose the plants off and be on with life.
When these little inconveniences prop up for me I think about the thousand people who just died all over the world from either starvation, not a drop of water, or HIV AIDS. I think of the child in Africa who dies alone at the age of five and a huge vulture now has some food. There are so many more important things in the world and locally to put energy into.
I know you really hate when the dog pees, but either do the waiting with the camera and report that person, or do something else to take your mind off it. Nobody is in disagreement that you have rights.
This discussion has been peaceful. By now most of these type discussions end in total idiocy. Get the camera out, OR put a video camera up where it can see the dog doing this. You should be able to get several hours out of the tape. Eventually you'll capture it.
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wrote:

When babies start walking and investigating everything in the house, most people put safety locks on cabinets containing anything that could hurt a baby. Assuming the home did NOT have these safety locks in place before the baby, would you agree that their appearance is related to the presence of the new baby?

One obeyed, and remained friendly. Two said that the first X feet of property belongs to the public, which is not true (according to our town justice), and continued to argue. All three were asked politely, in the exact same way.

You could use this logic to justify looking the other way for almost any kind of crime. I've got a friend who could remove a picture window from your house, intact and undamaged, in under 1/2 hour. Would that be OK with you? After all, it's not assault or indecent exposure, and it's certainly not a bad as a child starving in Africa. I just like your window and I feel like having it, purely on a whim. You wouldn't call the police, right?

That would only help if I wanted to waste time at our town court. I'm considerate of my neighbors. I expect the same, without having to spend money or take time off from work in order to make it happen. Some of us understand that when you work hard to have a nice home, you have the right to peace and harmony.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

So why have you hijacked this discussion? The original question wasn't about you. It's not always about you.
Start another thread; call it "Dogs should be shot on sight" or something.
Bob
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Threads with that subject line NEVER go well. :-)
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