Deer prevention

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On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:50:41 -0400, "symplastless"

The vines growth rate is much too fast for the tree to keep up. In the time it takes for the tree to grow a few inches the vine has grown many feet.
If the growth rates were matched the tree might have a chance.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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No, I don't have peer reviewed anything, I've seen it and it's general knowledge, at least around here. The plant smothers the host (thus blocking photosynthesis), and the weight pulls the host down. In addition, the ivy reaches maturity and then flowers, spreading seeds via birds eating the berries. Not a plant I want growing on my trees.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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I try to make decisions based on data. I don't like ivy in trees because it covers signs of high risks of hazard such as cracks. I don't like ivy on trees. But I have not read data that stated ivy kills trees.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.
expounded:

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What if the data came from homeowners who observed ivy killing trees? Would that be valid, or would it depend on who collected the data?
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I do not make decisions on what people get published in journals such as phytopathology or whatever. You would have to contact the journal and ask the journal what it will publish. Ask the US Forest Service what they will publish.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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http://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/englishivy.html
While English ivy cultivars are excellent accent plants in containers, plain old English ivy is not the most desirable landscape plant. Some of its problems include damage to structures from rootlets, creating refuge areas for pests (undesirable insects and rodents), and invasion into natural areas where it displaces native vegetation. English ivy is also poisonous. The cell sap causes severe skin irritation and the berries and leaves are toxic if ingested.
English ivy can also damage trees when it climbs the trunk and competes for water, nutrients, and light. Ivy climbing trees should be carefully removed to avoid damage to the tree trunk and cleared away from the soil at the base of the tree. This is not as easy as it sounds because ivy roots can become closely intertwined with the tree roots. I suggest clearing ivy away from the trunk for at least a three foot distance.
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How about the National Park Service? http://www.nps.gov / http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/hehe1.htm ECOLOGICAL THREAT "As the ivy climbs in search of increased light, it engulfs and kills branches by blocking light from reaching the host trees leaves. Branch dieback proceeds from the lower to upper branches, often leaving the tree with just a small green broccoli head. ***The host tree eventually succumbs entirely from this insidious and steady weakening. *** In addition, the added weight of the vines makes infested trees much more susceptible to blow-over during high rain and wind events and heavy snowfalls. Trees heavily draped with ivy can be hazardous if near roads, walkways, homes and other peopled areas. On the ground, English ivy forms dense and extensive monocultures that exclude native plants. English ivy also serves as a reservoir for Bacterial Leaf Scorch (Xylella fastidiosa), ***a plant pathogen that is harmful to elms, oaks, maples and other native plants.****

Loved your bear story, John. But, I gotta tell you, every arborist I've known is just a little bit looney. I don't know if it's the chainsaw fumes, or you just gotta be crazy to climb trees. (I climb in arenas to rig sound and lights for entertainment events, and we may be a little bit weird too...) No offense meant....
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The deer had a garden feast night before last. Ate the last bedraggled cuke, the squash right to the ground, bits off the pumpkins, carrot tops, peppers, and most of the tomatoes. I haven't been over to see the damage yet so I don't know how the corn, okra, and eggplant fared. They don't seem to care for the Brandywines as much as the cherries and Beefsteaks tho. They totally ignore the English Ivy that we'd love to get rid of. I think it was revenge for the chunk of firewood my buddy chucked at a deer on Saturday.
Seahag
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Seahag wrote:

yep, it's a deer conspiracy........lol!
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Hey...we love the plaids. They put on a great show. Last time my son and I went to the gun club (youth .22 rifle league), some kid made the mistake of asking a question about his rifle, and he was set upon by about a dozen plaids. All had multiple spare tires, mismatched suspenders, and flannel shirts. And, this is a city, not out in the sticks. It's like a uniform for these guys.
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On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:35:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

Doggone deer don't mind stepping all over what they don't try eating, nor finishing what they started munching on :(
We resorted to putting up a fence last year. I added poultry fence along the bottom this year to deal with the rabbits.
Now if we could just get some rain once in awhile. It seems it is always something...
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I will get the MSDS on a product called deer fence. It does work very well.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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Its actually called liquid fence. I am not a product pusher. However I have a friend that uses it on his property with great success. The day lilies, rhodies and so on have been off limits for the deer once this is applied.
I would get a MSDS just to be on the safe side. I live in PA and deer are our state mammal. They have been pushed to no ends. As long as the liquid fence is safe, it is a common sense solution.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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symplastless wrote:

Garlic, eggs, soap, surfactant and thickening agent sounds harmless. From my experience you probably have to apply frequently to the plants the deer like. I just got my PA hunting license and if any of your clients want the final solution and deer chili, let me know ;) Frank
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Other than deer here are some things humans do to harm plants. Do you hunt them too?
Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case Sensitive.
Troubles in the Rhizosphere http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html
Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub1.html and Look up "Tree Planting" http://www.treedictionary.com
Improper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html and http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"
Improper Pruning http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning
Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry) http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html
Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND /
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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That was really a silly response, John. And, you don't actually have a problem with hunters, unless you are a vegetarian.
Are you a vegetarian?
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I used to be until a friend of mine put a Philly cheese steak in my face. I have followed bear and deer and saw fun things. It does bother me, i.e., the way the deer have been pushed from once fertile forest, to farm lands, to housing developments. Life is a journey, powered by the sun. On this journey I have become connected to bear and deer. I have no problem with deer. Another good friend of mine was in front of me heading south on 202 when a small heard of deer where jumping into cars. There is a medium of about 30' of mowed turf. All of the deer except a young one got across the North bound lanes. Speed limit 55MPH. Me and my friend stopped. I went into the medium and the young deer came over and placed his or her head on my leg. My friend and I had trouble stopping North bound traffic for the young one to cross. Finally one driver did stop and others followed and the deer crossed and went off. The sad thing is the deer was coming from and heading into, another development where most likely was thought of as a nuisance as many of you claim. That's where I am at. The deer are not my enemy. Yes I eat meat. I would rather be vegetarian to be honest. Oh well. PEACE!
You are not my enemy are you?
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.
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Sometime I will share my story about a bear.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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Once I was looking for Cucumber magnolia trees for optimum fertility level in old growth forest. I was at red oak camp ground and called the US Forest Service and they could not tell me where to find such trees. I followed a bear at the camp grounds and the bear took me to a young cucumber magnolia. Then he or she went to a dumpster that said Valentine. I have a picture of that. My birth day is valentines day. Oh, wee, just my crazy way of thinking. I do think. I would not get to close to a bear though. They are not my enemy.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

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Of course I'm not your enemy. I am one with cows, fish and poultry, and yet, I eat them. Hunters I know don't kill deer because they have a problem with them. They do it for the food. OK...one guy does it to get away from his disgusting wife. But the rest do it for food.
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