I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color one can get.
I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had planned to use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some black, alkyd enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to use acrylic...I don't have spray equipment so will need something I can sand to get a nice surface.
Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture showing but not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that has some black tint in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better or a dark one (eg, walnut or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?
All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points :)
I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color one can get.
I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had planned to use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some black, alkyd enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to use acrylic...I don't have spray equipment so will need something I can sand to get a nice surface.
Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture showing but not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that has some black tint in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better or a dark one (eg, walnut or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?
All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points :)
I have used dyes for many years. I settled on Transtint mainly because they seem to have quality control from batch to batch. I generally scrape or sand to the 120 to 150 range. I mix the dyes in shellac so as to minimize the "grain raising". The key here is to use eyedroppers or measuring spoons (the cooking kind), apply the result to some scrap (cutoffs of your project piece), and add more of this dye or that to home in on the color you want. Write everything down to get the final formula. Important: Make enough in a batch to cover your entire project because even with meticulous measuring/recording, no two batches are ever quite the same.
Can you get a jet black? I doubt it since you are adding dyes to a carrier (shellac or water) and hence diluting the color. For example, my formula for a walnut color (always a popular choice) is a mix of dark brown, black, and red. Unfortunately my modest collection of test boards with compositions was discarded in our downsizing move.
I have also found that Klingspor has a good selection of finishing goodies besides dyes (e.g. sandpaper, shellacs, sanders, etc.).
Anyway, you can wile away a lot of time coming up with your own formulae. Have fun. mahalo, jo4hn
Some years ago, well before I was the expert woodworker that I have so recently become, I built a cubbyhole unit to go over a desk. It spans the space between two armoires that we had had built by a local shop to hold my music gear. The armoires were a cordovan dark maroon.
I decided to try to approximate the color of the armoires for the cubbyhole unit. I bought four colors of dye; three powders and one liquid (TransTint Cordovan). One of the powders was black.
I had kind of hoped that the Cordovan dye would be a good match by itself. No such luck. I made a positively ridiculous number of samples. At one point I had a 6' 1x2 with a different color "swatch" every three inches, and that was *after* I had made a dozen or so separate pieces, some with a different dye mix on each side.
One of the problems was getting the wood dark enough. That's why I bought the black. At some point I believe I tried mixing as much black powder as would dissolve in a small amount of alcohol, with no other colors added. It was just another 3" of wood, after all. :)
If memory serves, this did produce somewhat blackened wood, but not nearly what you seem to be describing. There were variations in color and the grain was plainly visible. So if you give my expertise and experience the weight they deserve...
... well, you'll pretty much be back where you started, because the characterization of my skills above is pure bunk. Having said that, I do not believe that any mixture of the powdered black dye I bought will give you the look I think you want. I made it "rich" enough that there was still a little undissolved powder at the bottom; the solution was saturated.
I think you need something that will obscure the wood, and - again, consider the source - I don't think that's what dyes are good for.
Although I can easily see the difference between the color, sheen and grain of my cubbyhole unit and the armoires, I get many compliments on the match, so I guess it came out OK in the end. As an added plus, the weeks of sample making - "I'm adding Eye of Newt tonight honey, and a little Wolfsbane. Wish me luck!" - was a source of great mirth in the Guarino household.
That's the ticket. No stain or dye will get you to Jet Black. They aren't designed to do it, so they won't. To get to dead black, you need to compl etely obscure the grain and the texture, otherwise ambient light will trick your eye with reflectivity issues.
About 30 years ago I was still afraid to shoot lacquer, and colored lacquer was out of the question. I had to match some furniture (remember all the black stuff back then?) and all I could find was "piano black" lacquer whic h completely intimidated me. Spray only, too. My skills weren't up to spe ed for non-latex products then.
In comes the cavalry. I called a finisher (not a painter...) and had him c ome over. After a few ideas were tossed around, he worked me up a test pie ce of his proposal and I liked it. The wood pieces in question (a cube cof fee table and lamp table) finished according to his process and the client was thrilled.
The wood was sanded to 220gr. A coat of sanding sealer was applied, sanded , recoated, then resanded. A coat of "long oil" (what they used to call th e oil based products before they all became alkyd resin) oil based paint wa s applied with a hair (oil base specific china bristle)brush. Coat #2 was a pplied, and allowed to set for 24 hours before handling. I had the client wait one week before putting anything on either table, and the paint worked out great.
Since it was a table, if I wasn't going to spray, I would pad the paint on the large surfaces and brush in the details. Due to their long layout time , using a pad with oil based products can yield near spray quality (and in come cases the same!) for flat surfaces. Economical, too. I use the pad o nce, and toss it with no clean up. Note I am saying "pad" not foam. You ca n find something similar to this at the big box stores:
formatting link
0186429
If your project isn't too large, you might consider black lacquer that come s in rattle cans. I finished a fireplace mantle with some spray lacquer th ey sold me at one of the local paint stores (think you could probably buy i t at a box store) and it turned out very well. I don't know about the avail ability in your area, but I used this:
Thank you, folks, black paint (or lacquer) it will be. I'd prefer the lacquer, fast dry and less cat hair would get stuck in it :) Rattle cans are even a bonus, easier to use on my project (some vanity face frames) than even a pad.
Not to worry, it will get filled. If I use lacquer I might use brushing Deft to smooth up the surface, it builds fast and sands easy, then the color coats. I'd be sure to check compatibility.
I saw the subject "wood dye" and just couldn't help it, so sue me.
A fellow lost an eye in an accident, and was fitted with an eye made of wood. (This makes the joke on topic.)
He became very self-conscious and something of a recluse. A friend finally convinced him to try socializing again, so he went to a local dance, but he stood back in the shadows while the fun passed him by. Finally he noticed a pretty girl sitting alone and looking forlorn.. Looking closer, he saw that she had lost a leg and had an artificial one to walk with. He thought to himself, "Since she's handicapped too, maybe she'd dance with me."
So, screwing up his courage, he approached her and hesitantly asked her if she would like to dance.
She looked up at him with a grateful smile and exclaimed, "Would I! Would I!"
So he pointed his finger and shouted back, "Peg leg! Peg leg!"
Applying lacquer, whether sprayed, brushed or padded won't do much to fill pores. It is a top coat. That is why in a traditional french polish finis h you must have several coats to cut through. Trust me on this; the lacque r and subsequent build coats will only reflect and transfer the texture und erneath the coating.
The above mentioned primer will sit on top of the wood because it has so ma ny solvents suspended in the spray solution. It won't hide the pores, but if you brush a couple on, depending on the wood you can go a long way to mi tigating their appearance. After all, you don't want it to look like plast ic, right?
You can prime with this and immediately go to paint after an hour or so.
If you go to lacquer, wait 48 to 72 hours to let the alcohol in the primer completely dissipate. Shellac uses modified alcohol as a solvent/carrier, a nd lacquer uses lacquer thinner which is a hot (high VOC) petroleum product . The two are not miscible and will not bind unless the primer is cured. BIN says 45 minutes or something along those lines... don't believe it when you switch products and solvent bases.
One more thing... in an earlier post you were thinking of putting urethane on top of paint. Don't do it! The resins in the paint will set up when cu red and if they are high quality paints, they will NOT adhere properly. Th ey may not even go on well. And when the urethane dries, it may craze. No t a good idea. If you are bound to use poly, buy the black stuff. Paint i s a top coat made to resist humidity, movement, abrasion, adhesion of forei gn substances (coca cola, water, bird poop, food, dirt, etc.) and it will c ertainly resist the adhesion of another coating. I have literally seen pol y peel off oil based paint in sheets.
Woodworking poly isn't like the stuff Mike Marlow shoots on his vehicles. He shoots a specialized SYSTEM of coatings that he can paint, top coat, and all other kinds of stuff that he does and still maintain compatibility. T hat is a completely different animal, much more sophisticated in its engine ering and the components are made to be applied to strict standards.
Not so with most wood coatings unless specially designed to do so. I don't personally know of any different types of finish top coats that are guaran teed to be compatible.
I needed jet black shelves for an entertainment center and any dye or stain I tried failed to get a true black.
The wood was Baltic birch plywood so hiding the grain was not an issue, otherwise I would have tried a grain filler as the first step. The color was off-the-shelf flat black rattle can paint (I had plenty on hand). After several coats to get a good build, I sanded everything flat with a sanding block to level out any grain showing through and then applied a final coat. After this had dried a day or so, I removed any nubs and smoothed the surface with a gentle rubdown using #0000 steel wool. A final few coats of poly sealed the deal. The flat black turned to a deep gloss and the poly left a dead smooth surface. If I ever need to do this again on grainy wood, I'd dig out my stash of grey lacquer primer/filler from my auto painting days to get a smooth, grain free surface and do the black paint trick again.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.