Wiring a new shop

Well, yes, as always, the requirements of any specific tool or appliance trump "general rules". Interesting, though -- I didn't know anything of the sort had ever been produced. Wonder if some of that might have been aftermarket mods?

Reply to
Doug Miller
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The resulting ground loop (parallel neutral current paths) will allow dangerous objectionable current to flow onto metal parts of the electrical installation (and onto metal piping and structural steel).

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Reply to
Nova

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I believe these were factory jobs -- I've wished more than once I had "bought'en" :) one of them from Eddie when he was selling them as he was enlarging his shop, but $500 was a _lot_ of money back then and I was just out of school so the $150 for the small shaper and 6" Rockwell jointer was all I could manage at the time.

As I recall, everything looked to match and the controls were all integral to the machine so I don't think it was an add-on. But I was young and pretty new to stuff at the time so didn't stick w/ me what they really were. Somebody long gone from the business now, I'm sure. They were a nondescript gray, darker than Rockwell so no real clue to try to match up like a recognizable PM green or some such.

He said he had bought'en them from a factory auction somewhere in PA -- they had had a production line of 25 of them -- 5 rows of 5 in line. Started at one end w/ rough stock, came out at the other with their surfaced/thicknessed stock for the sawyers on the other. They had replaced the 25 machines/50 employees with 2 large planers and a wide belt sander and five guys. About 1969/1970 when I met Eddie by answering his classified ad. He had had the machines 2-3 years at that point. I'd guess they were at least 20 years old if a day, probably closer to 30 then...

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Reply to
dpb

*What* "resulting ground loop"?
Reply to
Doug Miller

Thanks, I think I understand both the theory and the mechanics.

If I want to have a 60 AMP subpanel, one method would be:

Buy a low cost package service entrance panel making sure what joins the nuetral and ground buses is removable, remove the tie between the nuetral and ground buses, make sure the ground bus is bonded to the panel, replace the existing main breaker (which will probably be 100 amp or greater depending on the panel capacity) with a 60Amp main breaker, and I'm there?

all the above assuming I have the properly sized, type and appropriately run conductors from my main panel on a 60 AMP branch circuit.

Frank

Reply to
Frank Boettcher

Didn't mean to suggest that you didn't, Frank - sorry if I gave that impression. I just wanted to correct the misstatements flying around, and affirm that your understanding is the correct one.

Bingo!

Reply to
Doug Miller

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Thank you for being my editor.

That's what happens when you engage fingers before brain.

My previous post is in error as noted by Frank.

The sub panel gets a ground bar with the panel tub (enclosure) bonded to it with the bonding strap and an insulated neutral bus that then gets carried back to the service entrance panel.

Sorry for the confusion.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

If you're feeding the sub via a breaker on the main panel, you don't need to replace the main breaker in the subpanel.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Friesen

Absolutely nothing.

(See my Mea Culpa on my response to Frank.)

It should have read "Insulated neutral bus".

The ground bus with the sub panel bonded to it's ground bus and then carried back to service entrance will give single point grounding.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

The (M)ain (L)ug (O)nly panel with an assortment of main c'bkr kits was developed to provide the electrical distributor the maximum flexibility of his inventory with the minimum investment.

For years, the standard was the 125A, MLO panel with various branch arrangements.(Usually 60A and 100A)

As shipped from the manufacturer, they were ready to install as sub panels, if if you added an insulated neutral, and used the existing bus bar as a ground bus.

To convert to a service entrance panel, all you had to do was add a main c'bkr kit since the neutral and ground connections shared the same bus.

Today's higher electrical usage often dictates a 200A panel, which is a whole new family of larger c'bkrs for main c'bkrs.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

Reply to
Mike Berger

You must be new.

Trying to talk to Miller is like pissing up wind.

After a while, you know better.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

Pissed off because I pointed out your electrical errors *again*, I see...

Reply to
Doug Miller

Well, of course we were talking about woodworking machinery here... :-)

Which is why I said this, in the part that you snipped:

If you want to plan for "in case you need it some day" it's better to not run cables at all, but instead pull individual conductors through conduit: pull what you need now, now; pull what you need later, later.

Reply to
Doug Miller

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