"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:GUhPc.2945$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com:
What? If you're using the mitre, the 24" side is against the miter and you're trimming it to 22". Same for your 48" below.
If you are trimming the 13" to 12", the 24" side goes against the fence and you cut off (cutoff on opposite side of blade from fence) the 1".
Unless I am missing something, it seems simple to me.
LD
Thee is a reason I chose 13" for the example. Most saws are 11 1/2" or less from the table front to saw blade. Thus, the miter will be off the table starting out maiking a rather difficult cut. OK, so yo can do 13" on your saw, what if it was 14"? Point being you can't safely u se the miter. Ed
Reverse the miter gage.
You have to love a simple answer Ed
|Reverse the miter gage.
Exactly.
My panel/crosscut sled is "reversed" too and I run it on the right side of the blade. It's feels more comfortable to me and I don't have to skid the whole thing across the saw when I'm crosscutting an inch and a half wide stile.
Wes
|> What if you have a glued up panel that is 13" x 24". You want to end up |> with 13" x 22". Given the 13" dimension, you can't use the miter |because |> the end is off the table. You know you should be using a panel sled, but |> you don't have one. |>
|> Do you make the cross cut along the fence? Do you set the fence to cut |off |> 2 inches or to cut off 22 inches? |>
|> What if the panel was 13" x 48" and you want 13" x 46"? Still feel safe |> doing it that way? |>
|>
|"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:QXoPc.1710$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com:
OK. On mine I can do pretty close to 18" in front of the blade using the sliding table. At some point I'm going to reach a panel size that is just too dangerous to use either the fence or the mitre. Then I'd use the panel saw - If I had one. :o)
LD
No arguments about how to do the cuts. But is it really true that most table saws only have 11-1/2" in front of the blade. I have pretty limited exposure to a variety of saws but my old Craftsman (from my dad) has 15 + inches in front and my radial arm saw will cut a 15" wide pannel that is 1" thick. I'm not considering a new saw, but if I were I wouldn't have looked at that dimension until now.
BTW, I've seen hints that for wide pannels you simply reverse the mitre in the slot. (as a note: with my mitre and saw I would also have to change from the right slot to the left slot to avoid hitting the miter with the blade. Is there some objection to reversing the miter? Of course you can't cut all the way through a wide pannel but at least you could cut the first 10" and then continue with the miter in the normal position. In my case this would work for a 25" wide pannel, but I couldn't be assure of a really straight cut, so I always use a circular saw and a straight edge for anything over 15" wide.
George Cawthon asks:
That must be a really old Craftsman. My current Craftsman has 12", which is unusually wide. My Unisaw had, IIRC, 11-3/4". Both of those are measured, not claimed, but I don't recall where I stored the Unisaw measurements, so that's memory, which is a tricky thing these days. Reverse your gauge and you get about 22" with some stability to start, and more than that in 3/4" thick wood as the blade doesn't need to be all the way up, thus doesn't reach the end of the insert slot.
A sled is really a better bet for accuracy, but some of those I've seen will create as many problems, because of weight, as they cure.
I've seen some smaller saws--some of the job site types, for example--that have as little as 5" in front of the fully raised blade. And take about 40 turns to get the blade all the way up.
Charlie Self "Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air." Jack Benny
This is originally what I was asking because table saw manuals usually refers to ripping and crosscutting interchangeably with the aspect ratio of the board. Ripping being displayed as cutting along the long side of a long board and crosscutting as cutting through the short side of a long board. Obviously it is unsafe to use the rip fence for a cut across the 2 inch side of a 2X20 inch board. But I was wondering if grain had anything to do with it. Apparently not, the degree of safety when using a rip fence is determined by the aspect ratio of the board but even still there is no generally accepted rule of safety.
|That must be a really old Craftsman. My current Craftsman has 12", which is |unusually wide. My Unisaw had, IIRC, 11-3/4". Both of those are measured, not |claimed, but I don't recall where I stored the Unisaw measurements, so that's |memory, which is a tricky thing these days. Reverse your gauge and you get |about 22" with some stability to start, and more than that in 3/4" thick wood |as the blade doesn't need to be all the way up, thus doesn't reach the end of |the insert slot.
My Unisaw has 12 1/8" from the flat side of the chamfer on the edge of the table to the leading tooth of the fully raised blade. My neighbor works nights or I would go over to his place and measure my old Craftsman. But by *my* tricky memory, it's about the same distance.
Wes
It's a 10 inch bench model 113.29991. I don't know when he bought it probabaly between 1952 and 1958, so it is old but not ancient. The exact measure is 15-3/8" from the mitre face (about 1/16" onto the table and the blade raised to 1" cutting height. Heck, I could switch to an 8" blade and get another inch.
OK. The measurement is usually taken from table edge (not fence rail edge) to the tip of the first tooth on a fully raised blade. I won't have time today, but if I remember, I'll check the difference on the current saw. It should be at least 2" more that way, possibly more than that.
Charlie Self "Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the clubs and the fresh air." Jack Benny
Correct Marc. I can probably refine your last assumption though, ("but even still there is no generally accepted rule of safety"). Consider the following to be true... if it kicksback, you probably did it wrong.
One of the reasons I am asking is because I have been in this hobby for two years now, first with a $250 craftsman benchtop table saw and now with a delta unisaw and I have never experienced a kickback episode. I don't want to be lulled into the feeling that it will never happen. So I am trying to find out exactly how this occurs before it occurs. I really hate injuries and bad experiences that tend to take the fun out a hobby.
I was discussing with a woodcraft employee that I normally don't use a splitter or guard and he showed me a wicked looking scare on his palm where a kickback episode sent a piece of wood into his hand. Since then I installed one of those pricy biesmeyer splitters that is easy to remove, I used it for a while but I find myself falling back into the habit of not using it. I prefer "the gripper", plastic feather boards (lock into miter slot), a magnetic feather board (forgot what it is called), and push sticks. I also have an osbourne eb3 which solves alot of those questionable cuts, the stock miter is too small and temps you into using the fence. I've considered board buddies but I don't want to drill into my fence.
Marc
kickback happens when the wood engages the upward moving teeth at the back of the saw. it doesn't take much for the wood to wander over there and once the blade grabs it things happen fast. splitters are pretty good at preventing kickback, but not infallible. my feeling is that heavier, more solid machines with more horsepower are less likely to kick back than lightweight underpowered ones, but the consequences of having a 5hp motor flinging wood at you are scary to think about.
I have a pin in the throat plate on my saw. it works, and is easy to change in or out- just switch throat plates.
you're right to be concerned. kickback really sucks.
safety equipment is *always* imperfect. some of it creates more hazard than it solves, and all of it adds to the complexity of operating the machine. simple is good, easy to use, adjust and change is good. no guard can replace common sense or good work practice. that said, keeping a splitter on your saw is probably the easiest way to prevent kickback.
thing is, you get used to having the splitter in there and get a little sloppy... then you have to remove it for a dado cut or something, and forget to put it back in, and whammo....
the stock miter gauges that come with most saws are close to useless. build a sled.
Fence rail edge? I measured 1/16 in from the table edge because there is no way I would start a dut without the flat of miter slightly on the table. Didn't know there was a standard, that's why I gave gave the height of the blade. Fully raised (which is 3 inches) the distance from the edge of the table to the first tooth is 13.5 inches. By the way, fully raise is a piss poor standard, since neithier I, nor many others would ever cut a 3 inch thick pannel. Distance at multiple heights such as 1/2", 1", and 2" blade raise would be more useful .
George Cawthorn responds:
Edge of table measurement is simply to give a starting place. Reversing the miter gauge lets you get a start without losing anything at all.
It's only a standard for comparison purposes: most 10" table saws cut to
3-1/8", give or take a touch or two. But fully-raised is fully-raised, no matter the depth of the final cut, so you have some basis for comparison. The multiple height idea is a good addition, though, and one I'll keep in mind for the next test. It might well be the kind of thing, though, that works almost as easily from extrapolation: that is, if the person who looks the saw over sees it will cut to 12" at full height, he (or she) knows it will cut a considerably wider piece at a lower height.You might be surprised, by the way, at how many people do at least some table saw resawing of woods that require full depth cuts and a flip to finish.
Charlie Self "Inanimate objects are classified scientifically into three major categories - those that don't work, those that break down and those that get lost." Russell Baker
Ah but that would be ripping; the piece would be against the fence so the table edge to saw blade distance wouldn't be limiting except for long boards. Whew! resawing a 3/4" thick board with the blade fully raised would scare the hell out of me even if I had a high fence.
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