tree removal arrangement

scenario

property owner has a tree they want removed

depending on the tree size and location it can be very expensive to have them removed by a pro

the location matters for lots of reasons

proximity to structures some localities require permits to remove trees and fines if you just cut one down without asking

etc

i see lots of ads on craigslist for free lumber just come and cut it down

i do not think they really understand what they are askin for because anyone could show up with an axe and a chain saw and wreak havoc

saw an ad recently though for free lumber and they had 50-100 trees

do not know the species

so maybe it all comes down to what species and how big and how much work

has anyone devised a model or spreadsheet that can begin to determine the economy of this pursuit

i am leaning toward making the property owner pay some money no matter what just because of the amount of work and threat to life and limb

Reply to
Electric Comet
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There are a lot of "it depends" questions that go along with this...

Will the trees yield mill logs in regards to size?

Hardwoods/Softwoods?

Is this a clear cutting project where everything has to go?

Is it a TSI project (Timber Stand Improvement) where generally only cull trees are being offered? Cull could be dead/damaged/leaner trees that may be firewood only.

Does the brush (i.e., tops and limbs) need to be chipped, or need to be cut sufficiently to have it lay fairly flat, or can you leave it lay as cut?

Possible answers include:

Mill logs... the cutter generally pays the land owner for those and the price depends on anticipated yield and species and the market at time of cutting.

TSI, what is it worth as firewood and can you process the wood economically? Is there anything worth milling? There could be some trees with great character that are nasty looking and not of interest to a commercial milling operation but that could yield great wood via custom cutting with a chainsaw mill or bandsaw mill.

Clear cutting... that?s almost always a ?they pay? proposition and millable logs are a bonus.

How you perceive all of this in the context of the trees offered is up to you... At the end you may feel like you won or you may feel like you lost financially. Then again, if you simply like cutting trees down and the wood/money is secondary that can work too!

Reply to
John Grossbohlin

To me, it sounds like some cheap SOB is willing to take some risk to get rid of a tree. They are looking for a guy that thinks he is getting a freebie for a little labor.

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me for dropping a big branch on his cat.

I had a tree taken down a couple of weeks ago. It had little value for wood cut into boards, but did yield some firewood.

In my case, I paid $400 to have it taken down. If I was doing it for the wood value, I'd be working for a very low wage. Unless you can get a good yield of a prime species like cherry or walnut, I'd want to get paid.

You really have to look at the shole situation like you are now. Equipment involved risk, yield, time, expectation of clearing everything away. My guess is you are dealing with a cheap ass homeowner that thinks he is giving you a great gift. They will be a PITA do deal with.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

As best I can determine, you are not a professional. You are a hobbyist, maybe? .... *We've never seen any of your woodwork. You don't have a clue, as to what you are contemplating "leaning" into, if you are actually conte mplating such.

You seem to post about such a wide variety of stuff and there doesn't alway s seem to be a common thread connecting all the different things you post a bout.

Is that your first thoughts, the bottom line or end product. i.e., profit? Typical thinking for a failed venture: Though you appear to be consider ing the "work involved", your comments suggest a round-about way of looking at the end product (profit), without considering all that precedes it, req uired to accomplish it. I get a sense that your business planning/thinkin g is about as valid (meaning erratic) as your varied woodworking postings.

For a property owner who has significant timber on their property, they won 't be advertising on Craigslist, period!! They will go directly to a dedi cated lumber/milling company. For this 50-100 trees, I highly suspect it' s scrub stock or firewood, at best, and the property owner is looking for s omeone unknowing, of such things. Or did you make up this story, about th ese 50-100 trees, simply for the purpose of posting something (again), here on the forum?

I'll bite, though:

I suggest, if you want some (hobbyist) lumber for yourself, to inquire abou t cutting 1 or 2 trees, only. Size up that job (and the milling, etc.), b efore you even remotely consider tackling an acre of (questionable?!) timbe r land.

BTW, for that property owner, who advertises on Craigslist, .... and as oth ers, here, have proffered...., I would recommend you Google "Hold Harmless Agreement", even for collecting 1 or 2 trees.

As a hobbyist, I once cut down 5-6 trees, at one time, for lumber, long ago . The lumber value wasn't worth the labor effort. The pleasure of getting it was the value, at my naive age and/or lack of intelligence of such thin gs. Since then, I've always salvaged a downed tree, or one that was to be fell by someone else, then had it milled. For a hobbyist, lumberjacking is a big job and the "profit" (of 1 or 2 trees) is usually only in the plea sure of getting a particular tree/lumber, not necessarily the monetary prof it of the lumber.

Scenario: Let's say you cut all those trees and have them milled (rough cu t). Then what? Where you gonna store all that lumber, before you sell it ? .... *I assume you gonna sell it? Kiln dried, air dried? Is it to be planed or will you sell it as rough cut? Then you have to find some buyers , and that's another whole new ball game!

Side note: Generally, anything 8" (sometimes 10") or less, in diameter, is not milled, is not worth milling, for lumber. By the time the log is squa red, there's no significant amount of "beam" remaining, to cut a decent amo unt of lumber.

If you want some hobbyist lumber, for a cost of labor only, I would recomme nd you find an old house, barn or shed to salvage, rather than lumberjackin g. .... and again, consider a Hold Harmless agreement for demolition. Mo re often, the property owner pays to have a structure demolished.

Want to find an old house to demolish? Go to your city's code office/appro priate department and find out what old houses are listed as condemned, man dated to be demolished. Go inspect the properties, to see which ones have some good/desireable lumber. Quote the owner a fee for demolition. You' ll likely need a contract, as to what all needs to be done to satisfy the c ity's ordinace and/or the owners' wishes. For condemned houses, the city will often give the owner a time limit to have the building demolished, or else the city will do it, at the owner's expense. The city's demolition fe e is usually non-negotiable. What's the city's typical fees, for various s tructures, and use that as a guide for your quote.

Not familiar with Hold Harmless agreements? Go to the Court house (files) and find one/some... see what is entailed, how it's worded, etc., etc.

Sonny

Reply to
Sonny

Exactly. They advertise "free wood" but what they actually want is "free work."

Reply to
Michael

you make a lot of good points and show that this makes a good case for a computer model using a spreadsheet at least and maybe a full blown computer program to try to find the best arrangement

but there are probably too many unknowns that can be inserted into the formula for the model to be accurate

i still lean toward charging the tree owner some amount in these cases even if it was excellent lumber

if they balk then it is time to walk they would probably call back when they get quotes from others

Reply to
Electric Comet

the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during the tree cutting

Reply to
Electric Comet

It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Here's a good reason to hire pros:

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....and these guys are admitted amateurs!

nb

Reply to
notbob

You could ask a lawyer for $250 or less.

Reply to
Bill

Any one of these guys could show up too...

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Reply to
John Grossbohlin

...and a lawyer's answer will be "it depends". The question is more of are you willing to go to court (on either side).

Reply to
krw

now if i can find a tree pro that is also a lawyer

Reply to
Electric Comet

yeah it can go bad quickly really have to think clearly in these cases

spend 500 or 1000 or more and have it done right

or possibly end up injured for life with destroyed property and now you have to hire someone anyway

i thought they set the palm tree onto the truck nicely

Reply to
Electric Comet

I've taken down about 60-70 trees in the past year... no mishaps and I'm not counting anything under about 5-6" at breast height (ABH). Some of the trees were very technical drops due to the proximity to wires, buildings, fences, swimming pools, etc. The last one was a dead 74' ash that was 30" in diameter ABH. The natural lean and canopy had the center of mass of the tree leaning about 16 feet towards the house. Making matters worse it was within

7" of a shed which made it tricky to cut.

Using a rope saw I cut the limbs off up to about 35 feet or so which got the center of mass down to about 7 feet towards the house. I felled it 90 degrees to the lean using an open face notch, plunge cut to establish the hinge, lots of wedges to hold it in place, and then cut the "trigger." That is, the Game of Logging technique. It ultimately took a 4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it. It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the final moments in abpw. The caption was my son's doing. LOL

BTW, I used the Stihl MS461 with 25" bar that I picked up around the first of the year. That 30" tree was no match for the saw! I limbed most of it with my MS271 and used the MS461 on anything over about 6". Also, almost all the trees in the background are dead ash... I took down 29 of them on my parents' property. We need to get the adjoining property owner to take down everything within about 80-90 feet of the shed and property line as they all seem to be leaning towards it!

Reply to
John Grossbohlin

Nicely swot, John. Got two of them suckers in my back yard. Wanna give them a go? LOL!

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Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

Cutting them down and bucking is challenging and fun... cleaning up the mess isn't...

Fun is mine... mess is yours.

Where are you? LOL

Reply to
John Grossbohlin

Generally? About 65 NW of (and two lifestyles away from) the Shitty of Chicago (aka Chiraq)

Specifically? About 35' and 95' due west of two dead Ash trees (~ 45 yrs old) that met their match with the Emerald Ash Borer. :(

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

I'm about 900 miles east of you... doesn't seem practical!

The Emerald Ash Borer has decimated this area..., e.g., 100s of trees within 300 yards of my parents' house alone.

Reply to
John Grossbohlin

Cleaning up has ruined a lot of project that were a lot of fun doing.

Reply to
knuttle

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