That's why I'm saving up for one right now - for my first table saw.
From everything I've studied regarding table saw splitter/riving knife
design and its implementation on varying saws, I wouldn't buy a TS
without an integral riving knife that rides up and down with the
blade. Otherwise it's kind of useless.
It seems that even without its finger saving brake, it is still a
fantastic table saw.
I know I have mounted three blades so far, and that if the blade is
lower than ~1/2" from the highest height setting, it's sort of
useless. Maybe mine is slightly different.
Do you raise your arbor to max when swapping blades? Left-Tilt?
Perhaps it's just that I've got <average? | skinny? > arms, and have
never had to raise the blade. This throat is much larger than the old
saw, so it feels like a cavern in there, and jacking up the blade just
seems like unnecessary motion.
My suggestion about bending the other wrench instead still seems
relevant, however, which hand do YOU want swinging around those
Maybe it's because I'm left-handed?
I've not had time to think about it in reverse... R is broken.
Minor quibble/observation anyway... I have a large hammer... <g>
(And a vise.)
Yeah, I was trying to be funny, but come off like an ass*. :-\
Hey Greg - I've gotten a kick out of some of your comments, and I've simply
appreciated some of the others. In particular, I've found it a little
enjoyable to see one of the sacred cows of this group reviewed and disclosed
to have some warts - especially in light of how much bashing a lot of
"lesser" saws suffer here. But - come on... is it really a big deal to have
to put your hand or arm "near" your blade? We're not talking about razor
sharp here after all...
Thanks. I'm glad someone else has a warped sense of humor.
And I didn't realize it was a sacred cow - I thought it was a big,
gray cabinet saw. A machine.
Worked with 'em my whole life. Take 'em apart, fix 'em, and put 'em
back together again. Run the piss out of 'em, break 'em, and start
all over again.
And I am not trying to 'bash' the saw over a wrench.
But purely from an engineer's standpoint, when I look at this photo:
Logic tells me, bend the one on the right.
The stationary hand holds the left wrench, while resting on the table,
and the right hand is swinging the arbor nut with the other wrench.
That photo was taken with the blade lowered to 2 1/4". The arbor
wrench (left) is bound on the table top. Won't come off. There is
over 2 3/4" of space on the right side for bends in the wrench - and
that's the one that has the moving knuckles on it.
Granted, if you hold the wrench near the end, you're not even close to
the blade anyway. But...
Now, purely and logically, look at that photo again and tell me their
way makes ANY sense. Yea, it may work, but it's freaking illogical.
That is my only point, not that it can't be worked around, not that
doesn't work. But that it would improve the product (for me, anyway)
if they changed it. And it wasn't that big a deal. Till now. :-\
As for the blade sharpness, my WWII _IS_ about as sharp as a razor.
That's why that old Delta contractor blade is on there for the photo.
It's 5 years old, well worn, and definitely NOT sharp as a razor.
It's been a good all-around blade, however. Just not for fine
Not trying to start anything here - just analyzing a machine.
But I can see this is heading into the same sort of territory as
criticizing the current administration. Very emotionally polarized...
Man, am I glad I can type/run fast... <G>
Well, I see from the beeping (and quite annoying) web server alert,
that some of those Google types are having difficulty viewing the
photo because I used a backslash instead of a forward slash in the
photo URL. Sorry. Here is the correct link:
Hmmm... Chicago, UK, NYC....
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To me it makes sense that
the hand doing the moving (right hand for left tilt) be close to
perpendicular to the arbor axis. Maybe this is just me making an
ill-informed non-ergonomisist (is that a word?) non-mechanical engineer
guess, but I would tend to think one would be less likely to have the arbor
nut wrench slip off that way. With a straight arbor nut wrench, you can pull
it straight toward you or push it straight away from you. Also, I've always
run the blade up to full height whenever changing it. Like I said before,
different strokes for different folks.
-John in NH
You are absolutely right about the on-axis leverage, but if you just
HAD to bend one, which would it be? I'm not promoting bending either,
but Frank suggested that it was to allow for knuckle clearance.
And I also suppose that I am used to automotive combo wrenches, they
also have a slight bend in the head/shank relationship. But they also
have a thicker head that offsets the inclination to slip off the nut.
Personally, I liked the wrenches on the old saw - both were simply
flat steel - never had a problem slamming my knuckles together.
But, alas, they won't fit the new saw - first thing I tried.
But that's progress...
Good humor is always well received. Inaccurate "facts" demand to be
Standard blade supplied for that saw is either a 35-617 10x50 ATB & R
made by Leitz in Germany (you remember, the cheap chinese blade by
your observation) or an equivilent tooth configuration blade Oldham
Signature series made near Ashville, N.C. Which would depend on
timing. Both excellent blades based on what matters. However, to give
you the benefit the doubt someone could have substituted a Vermont
American. ( same guy that ground that table?). Substitutions were
sometimes made on benchtop refurb ( something better not worse) but,
in the past, it was never done on Industrial. However, new
management, who knows. Is it labeled V A or are you just guessing?
It really makes it
Hmm, when I told you why they did it in an earlier post you then
responded by saying you knew why they did it. Wonder which statement
is true. Works fine for me.
Manufacturers do not generally supply assembly tools, normally only
tools needed for ongoing adjustment and then only some of the time
depending on how common the tool might be. The supplied wrenches are
for adjusting the insert plane and the miter gage stops if memory
another inaccurate statement of "fact"
I replaced two flood damaged handles last week with a drift and ball
top part already answered,
Clarification on the statement. Standard splitters need to be designed
for the thinest kerf blade not the thickest. A thinner splitter will
work with a thicker blade but not vice versa.
Also answered and yes they can. The using public just doesn't want to
pay for it and I wouldn't either.
and require you to file this
Well, to be honest, it looked like a US Saw/Oldham blade to me as
well, but I was going by what you told me in a previous post:
I like the Oldham Signature blades - they are very good.
Unfortunately, no one I've found around here carries them anymore.
And this one is chipped. I hope they replace it with the same one.
I know why they did it - I just can't figure out why they bothered.
Read it sloooowly...
See subsequent discussion and photos.
No biggy - just an observation.
Probably explains the motor pivot shaft in the first saw I got. <g>
I prefer a more eloquent approach, personally. A vise, a press...
A "press of some kind" implies a pressing device such as a vise, a
screw-driven puller, a press, etc.
I don't care for dinged up marks on my hardware - I'm funny like that.
It's a personal thang.
Of course, we know thaaat.
But a thin splitter combined with a wide blade is not as effective in
preventing the wood from closing in on the blade.
A hunk of reaction wood could close up on the blade before the
splitter stopped it from doing so - depending somewhat on the distance
between the splitter and the rear of the blade.
Delta includes one .125" blade and one .074" splitter.
Not the most effective combo. I understand they are not going to
include two splitters, and that their solution is to provide one that
sort of works with both. Optimally, the blade and splitter should be
pretty close to the same thickness.
I understand that, but as I subsequently stated:
Some new, novice purchasers won't know until it happens to them.
Unless You come in the box with the saw or put it in the manual.
Besides, I'm more worried about the .032" variations in the table than
I am trivial stuff like this.
Dude, you need a vacation...
Don't get so excited about it - it's just a saw. ;-)
And it's just a discussion... <G>
Okay, time for me to jump on in here with a question or two and some
comments since the discussion is again about the splitter / guard.
Frank, I doubt you'll remember me but I believe it was you I contacted about
5 years ago. Keith B. gave me your name and phone number at Delta. At any
rate, at the time I had a brand new Delta 34-444Z CS and I modified the
splitter / blade guard so that the guard would stay in the up position while
the blade was being changed. And as you stated (earlier post), it had to
fall back into position on it's own when nudged or contacted by a piece of
stock going thru the blade. Said another way, it could not be locked in the
I do beleive it was you that I talked to (it was a Frank anyway) and it was
explained why Delta did not have this feature on their splitters (codes). I
emailed a drawing that showed the modifications (simple cuts and filing) to
the splitter and to the plastic guard. Never did receive any further
correspondence on that - not even an acknowledgment that the email was
recieved. No matter, I had a guard that stayed up even if the rest of the
world did not - at the time.
It was almost a year later, when the new tablesaw models arrived at
WoodWorkers Warehouse and my friend who worked there called me to say "Come
see your idea". Now I seriously doubt that I was the only person submitting
ideas to Delta on this and certainly not the only one complaining about the
splitter at the time - but one has to wonder.......
Q1 - What does it take to get Delta to accept an idea for a new feature,
enhancement, or safety related improvement ?
Q2 - What's the best way to get Delta's attention ?
It does appear that Delta resists making change until somebody else has
invented the wheel and decides to market it - and only then do they appear
to rise to the challenge. In this case, Jet had just introduced a guard
that stayed up on their new models and Delta followed. To me and probably
others, Delta may have had some "firsts" way back when but have since
decided to become a follower in the market instead of a leader. That's
probably a pretty typical corporate culture since the bean-counters now
dictate the technology used and not the design engineers.
I think many good, cost-effective ideas get trashed because it would cost a
few dollars more to include it - like the arbor nut/flange. That nut
couldn't possibly cost more than a couple of dollars to make and even after
a fair markup - should never cost $20 retail. But like many other
businesses - options usually cost more than they're worth. Corporate greed
takes over selling accessories and optional items instead of concentrating
on building a loyal customer base. You did note that I purchased a Jet
cabinet saw when it came time to upgrade for me and I paid a bit more for
the Jet than a Uni. After purchasing the Jet, I had a call from Customer
Service, asking if everything was okay. Delta never even sent a postcard or
email acknowledging that I even made a purchase from them.... It's all
about Customer service.
No, I'm not Delta bashing just showing how treating a customer from the
git-go, can be good or bad for the business. In this case, Delta lost. I
doubt that you set corporate policy while at Delta but I'll bet you had some
influence on it since you seem to have more than a casual insight into "why"
some decisions were made. That knowledge and influence (no matter how
insignificant you may think it is) could be used now to get Delta to pay
attention to the customer. They should consider hiring you back as a
Now I missed the part as to why you're no longer at Delta but you seem very
much pro-Delta and willing to help anyone needing some Delta expertise.
Damned if I wouldn't be looking for ways to capitialize on that - even if I
was retired (if thats the case).
Just some random thoughts, not well thought out perhaps but certainly not
meant to piss anyone off either and if I have, I apologize.
Bob, I don't remember the specific conversation but it certainly could
have happened. I took calls from end user customers all the time on
all kinds of issues. I got great enjoyment out of it. I did check my
email archive and cannot find a reference but that doesn't mean
anything either. could have been forwarded and deleted.
I can't answer that question for this day and age or the next question
either. Prior to the consolidation of the tool group, engineering was
local, where the product was made and we had great control. We were
normally short handed but could prioritize projects and get things
done. But when consolidation took place, engineering was transferred
to the home office. Now that B & D owns the company, it may be in
Towson, MD for all I know. And the years from the consolidation at
the beginning of 2000 till the B & D sale could only be described as
Many firsts some successful, some not. In the case of the guard lock
as I recall there was some confusion (in our minds at least) based on
the wording of the UL/CSA regs as to whether the Jet version and ours
were even legal initially. But even recently we were first with the
preset tension for different blade widths for the 14" Band Saw. First
with increased HP for that unit.
We were first with the use of sheet molded compound for saw tables.
This is a case where the material was very good, but the market just
would not accept it. more or less got burned.
No idea what the arbor nut/flange costs to make. Actually the
Marketing people decide what features will be included. For instance,
when a and X5 series is initiated, it is marketing that determines
that an upscale blade, warranty extension, free goods, such as a
mobile base, etc are included. I'm kind of surprised they haven't put
that arbor nut/flange in either because it is very nice.
and I hope you are getting good service and enjoying your Jet.
I agree that treating customers with respect is of utmost importance.
For instance, my quality manager and I would both scan the rec every
day to look for unresolved issues. While I post now we didn't post
back then, against policy, however, Ron B. the Quality manager back
door contacted many people who had slipped through a crack in what was
usually a very good technical and customer service system.
As for the consultant, who knows.....I had another plan but Katrina
has caused me to rethink.
Very simple. As part of the consolidation the plant I ran was shut
down and I saw no reasonable place for myself elsewhere and elected to
I am pro Delta, or more accurately, I am a great supporter of those
products particularly in the industrial line that Delta has that I
consider either best of breed or most value offered. Not everything
fits into that category. I also know just enough about B & D's
strategy with the Delta industrial line to be somewhat encourged that
they are on the right track and are excited to have it.
Thanks for the clarifications and enlightenment and I sincerely hope your
future plans materialize. And if anyone from B&D/Delta is peeking - you have
a helluva resource in the wild that you should be using to the fullest
Now back to the Greg and Frank show.....
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