To Turbine or not to turbine

While I don't spray water based clear coats with my hvlp (latex paint goes through the airless), I spray a fair amount of conversion lacquers.

I am with you. 3 coats is nothing. At a three mil wet layer per coat, it takes a minimum of three coats to get a final thickness of 3 mil which is what just about all manufacturers recommend. Spraying CAB lacquers, a having good spraying conditions, you should be able to put on multiple coats easily in a day without problems.

Shooting MLC Ultrastar (water borne), I know BARRY has noted multiple coats in a day as his norm.

But, we all have different experiences.

Robert

"joe" wrote

Those Hitachis are both the old style. I have heard/read some...uh.....unkind comments about the new style but I don't have any first hand experience with them. I can't say enough about that Milwaukee though. It has a "T" handle that allows height adjustment through the top of the table. No need for a "router lifter". It has power to spare. "2 wrench" collet. (some people don't care for that but I think it's easier to squeeze 2 wrenches together to tighten or loosen the collet instead of holding a shaft lock with one hand and a wrench in the other)

Max

Nothing to talk about. Those Milwaukees rule! I much prefer the two-wrench set-up also.

I think the thing I like the best about the hvlp turbine is its predictability. Once you get comfortable with it, it is much easier to work with for a range of finishes than a high pressure sprayer.

No worries about driers, in line filters, contaminates, etc. as with high pressure. And the gun is no harder to clean than any other. But the best part of course is the lack of overspray. It is rare for the overspray to travel more than a few feet, and the atomized haze doesn't hang in the air for 30 minutes waiting to land on something.

I sprayed out some bathroom and kitchen cabinets inside a house we remodeled, in the client's garage and all we did was hang some plastic up about 4 feet from the ground. No problems there and no complaints from the client.

When it is a real tear out remodel of mine or one of my amigos, I don't have any problems throwing a piece of plastic over sawhorses and spraying in a living room or den. The over spray pretty much just falls to the ground.

It is such a huge thing to not have to tape off a whole house, evacuate the living areas for hours while the drift settles, and to be able to be more flexible where you can actually spray. If I had known it worked this well I would have gotten on it earlier, regardless of the savings in material. To me, that's just icing on the cake.

Robert

I think all of them use the same Ametek Lamb turbine.

I learned some basic things from this book, like spraying into my own overspray:

My ML Campbell dealer gave me a printed copy of this:

Jewitt has some tips in his general finishing books. Roger Phelps has some video on the Phelps site. I've learned lots from Robert (nailshooter) and Mike Marlow, right on this forum.

The most difficult part for me was recognizing the different problems. After that, the Campbell document is a great resource to have handy.

Even with spraying, some finishes need a light rub out. There are some differences in technique, depending on the product in use. For instance, some finishes need defects to dry before repair, but you can often wipe drips away with lacquer on the spot. Some finishes like a "tack coat", others like full, wet coats. When in doubt, _let the finish dry_, then troubleshoot.

Warm air is great with water base lacquer. The simple way to cool the air when warming is a problem is to add more hose. Shutting the turbine down when not in use (I use a dust collector remote) also helps.

Not true at all, with my Fuji Q4, ML Cambell Ultrastar and ML Campbell NC Lacquer. I spray Ultrastar right from the can.

Not true on my Fuji siphon gun, it has a pressure line to the cup. Anybody who has opened the cup at the wrong time knows full well just how well it's pressurized! I also have a 2 quart pressure pot that runs from a standard compressor.

For my gravity feed gun, I go up a tip size.

Are you sure you've used a good HVLP?

Three coats (1 sealer, 2 top) in one day, scuffed with 400 in between, in Connecticut weather, sometimes in 1/2+ day. I can sand 45-60 minutes after spraying.

However, I won't stack parts until the next day. DAMHIKT.

The only thing I don't like about the little Bosch Colt is the shaft lock ... the air turns blue every time I use it. All my other routers use two wrenches.

(This thread has me dreaming about upgrading my HVLP ...)

My older Bosch laminate trimmer also has a shaft lock. I definitely prefer two wrenches.

When I demoed the Turbinaire unit, I almost bit on the spot as the guy opened a quart of really thick latex enamel in front of me, let me stir it to make sure there was no friggin' in the riggin', and he poured some directly in the cup and let me spray.

That >almost< sold me as I thought "surely no other system can do that". But in truth I think most 4 stage systems from the big boys will, and some of the 3 stage machines will do that, too.

I thin because of my shooting style and climate. If it is 65 - 70 degrees and about 50% relative humidity, I don't thin or mix anything with the clear coat. That actual day usually happens about twice a year around here.

LOL. You are definitely sturdier than I am. When I read that post there were so many things that were just completely wrong I deleted my original response. You just said it best and I think you hit the nail square on the head.

Robert

is that the bosch where you stick one end of one wrench in the top of the housing to lock the shaft? I have that one and I think I prefer it to a 'true' shaft lock. It's still two wrenches, just not two wrenches on the collet. Unfortunately, the plastic base on it cracked and getting it replaced is going to be almost as expensive as replacing the router >:-(

jc

This was the "only" negative comment I could find about hvlp.

I realize nobody who has ever bought a unit is likely to admit a problem, but most of the folks that are making comments have been around this group for a while.

I just got to decide which flavor at this point.

I am convinced it will be a good thing.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Please don't put me in that bucket.

I'm more than happy to pan anything that doesn't meet my expectations, regardless of what I paid for it. I don't find sharing my negative experiences a with product or service as a reflection on myself. If I dropped $700 on spray equipment and I didn't get total satisfaction, this group would be the first to know.

Or me. I will scream like a mashed cat when I am screwed by a tool maker. I don't care what it is. And the more money I spend, the louder I will be.

This is one of the great aspects of an unmoderated, unsupported free- for-all atmosphere. You can tell it like it is, and while you may hurt some feelings you can certainly relate your experiences without worrying about having your post deleted or edited.

With there only being a few large tool makers anymore that have tools readily available, I think it is important to share what you find out when you make a purchase. It saves the rest of us time, effort, money and heartburn.

I don't know of any one tool maker (OK, Festool guys, maybe yours ;^) calm down...) that consistently makes great tools manufactured to exacting standards across their entire product line.

Sharing information is without doubt the best part of the internet.

Robert

Yep... you do seem to "voice" your concerns with little regard to what the tool makers do or say. The open discussion has been the main reason I have hung out here for a right good while.

I'm from the south and we have more "saying" than carter has liver pills, but I don't recall ever hearing the "mashed cat" version.

Excellent.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I have one of the smallest and oldest turbines out there which I purchased used. The turbine I bought was manufactured in 1984. I am sure a bigger turbine or new gun technology might be even better, but I won't find out until mine finally dies. Until then I will enjoy the ease of spraying with my old TP turbine

You will not regret your purchase.

cm