But that's the exception, isn't it? Isn't it dry 99.9% of the time? Where it's in contact with dirt, I think I'd still find rated PT. IPE is accessible but it's not cheap. I looked at IPE decking but it was about 2x composite, which is about 2x PT (I went with Trex).
I have 20+ year old 6x6 PT lumber posts rated for ground contact supporting my deck and shed and it's still in fine shape. Since then, PT has changed to be less toxic and I've no experience with that stuff. I never used Cedar or Locust for in ground use, but everyone says it's rot resistant, and I have no reason to doubt "everyone".
I know water is a non-issue to wood. Wood stays good under water for centuries. It's where water and air hit the wood and it doesn't dry out that it rots. An untreated, unfinished white pine deck will last forever where the wood can quickly dry out after a rain. Where two boards meet, or ground contact and air and moisture sticks around it will rot easily and quickly. Normally, posts in a cellar should never rot unless you have a moisture issue.
Non-rotting posts: Catalpa is a soft wood, however folks down here would split logs, making fence posts. The catalpa posts would take root and grow. After years of growth, a line of trees would be established along the fence line. This was the case on my grandparent's farm, now our old homestead. A side benefit, in spring and summer catalpa worms were often collected to fish with.
Some time ago one of those trees blew down in a storm. Here's a small bench I made from that tree.
Cedar is rot resistant but it does rot. In south Texas there are a lot of cedar picket fences. In humid conditions these cedar picket fences rot from the bottom. And this begins in as little as 5 years. These fences normally use PT for the rails and posts and on the better built fences what we call "rot boards". The rot boards are a PT horizontal board in contact with the ground that the cedar pickets sit on. This helps keep the bottoms of the cedar pickets out of the grass with dew and they last much longer. Cedar posts do not do much better than the pickets. They typically crap out at ground level. Above and below ground they do fine but daily dampness from dew is the issue with cedar.
Wow that is cool! AND may explain why trees seem to grow along the fence line is some places. I always thought that the trees came up from seeds and were not mowed. BUT in pasture land not much mowing goes on except for the cattle feeding on grass.
"monkey pod" - totally differen t, I believe, than the Hawiian Monkey pod - either that or it was mistakenly called Catalpa. Soft, light, resinous wood not unlike cedar. Not as hard or heavy as Acacia. Or Locust!!
Many places are beginning to carry only "ground contact PT". I read somewhere (can't find it now and don't know if it came to fruition) that Home Depot was going to transition to selling *only* ground contact rated PT lumber. The reason was that the new standards call for using ground contact PT when ground contact will occur, when used within 6" of the ground and when ?used above ground but are difficult to maintain, repair or replace and are critical to the performance and safety of the entire system/construction.?
I like that last part. Why not use the most highly treated lumber in places where you can't get to it if it rots because of "limited" treatment.
I once read that the term "treated to refusal" is the most "dangerous" type of PT to buy. By dangerous I mean that you really don't know what you are getting in terms of treatment. The manufacturer simply pumps in the treatment until the board refuses to accept anymore. Treat a kiln dried board and you'll probably be able to get a lot of treatment deep into the board. Now pull a board out the river, slice it up and treat it the same day. The board will laugh at any attempt to add more liquid. Slap a label on the end that reads "treated to refusal" and call it a PT board. That's what I mean by "dangerous".
Regarding the new specs for ground contact, his is from 2016, I didn't look for any updates.
I put a board-on-board cedar fence around my yard 35+ years ago. Occasionally I have replaced a board here and there, but 99% of the fence is still rot free. Some boards have been in the ground a few inches since day one. I've removed some sections for access every now and then and while I had to fight with the ivy roots that were holding the sections in the ground, the bottom of the boards have virtually no rot.
The PT posts that hold up the fence and my deck seem to be as solid as when I put them in. That was definitely ground contact PT. The deck boards and railings are another story. I'll probably be renovating it in the spring.
"John Grossbohlin" snipped-for-privacy@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:
I've been away from the computer for Christmas trip.
You know that joke that goes:
Guy goes traveling to a small village in the jungle. When he arrives he hears drums coming from the mountain behind the village. He asks the driver what the deal is with the drums. Driver says, "Oh. Drums stop very bad." Huh.
Well next he's walking around the village checking it out and he asks one of the villagers about the drums and the villager says, "Drums stop, very very bad."
Finally, he's at the house he's staying at and he asks about the drums again. His host says, "Drums stop, very bad. Terrible."
That night he's sleeping and the drums suddenly stop! He wakes up, jumps out of bed and goes to his host, "What's going on?! What happened?! What is it?" and his his host replies,
"Bass solo."
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