super sharp supplies

[insulglass]

Folks -

I have a small internet business where I sell sandpaper lapping kits for overclockers in the computer enthusiast circles. Lately, I have been noticing some sales traffic from woodworkers, and frankly, I was wondering why. And after I traded a couple of emails, I found out - lots of folks have been trying out the "super sharp" or "scary sharp" method of sharpening and have been getting fine sandpaper supplies with me online. I sell sandpaper kits that include paper as fine as

10 micron (in the premium paper) or 2500 grit (in standard silicon carbide wet-dry). These kits provide my customers with enough to do the job but with little waste or extra expense.

There has been enough business that I decided to make a dedicated kit just for honing. Here's a copy of the post that will soon be on the front page of my site at

:

The product page will be at

(picture is not up yet but will be soon). The link is working for the addition to my Paypal shopping cart, or I can be paypalled directly to my email. Finally, while supplies last, I'll include a sample sheet of my premium sandpaper that's micron-graded in every honing kit.

Guys, I really am a woodworker. I really do sell sandpaper kits as a side business. I really do ship stuff at my true cost with no add-ons. I ship 95%+ of all orders within 24 hours. I do make a profit, but it's a modest one. I have superb customer feedback at both EBay and Heatware under the name "insulglass".

If you don't normally buy fine sandpaper beyond 220 or so grit level, and don't want to buy large packs to try this sharpening method out, I probably have what you need. Thanks for taking a moment to view this thread.

Dave [e-mail]

[AArDvarK]

Hi, I took a look and it is really good as an availability. But, I suggest that the sheets and glass be at least 1/2 sheet lengthwise, the sharpening needs distance beyond 1/4 sheet. Also the glass length to match, and should be

1/2" thick, scary sharpening is rougher than lapping a cooling block. I think the glass should also have some tacky silicone rubber sprayed onto one side, for preventing slipping. It is "ok" if your prices go 2 1/2 times higher or so...

My glass is awesome (to me anyway), 18"x18"x-3/4" float glass. It gives me the distance and thickness for toughness I need.

I build my own computer when needed, or hardware upgrade time. Does lapping the heat sink do something for the heat? Like improve the heat transfer quality?

Alex

[Upscale]

I've never heard of it either, but I imaged that a flatter surface means more contact make's it easier to conduct the heat away. The contact surface may have some type of coating (e.g. black paint) and lapping it would remove most of it making the contact more efficient.

[Jonathan Ward]

The theory is that by lapping the heatsink, you have more surface area to contact the die of the processor. Only people who overclock generally do this. It probably really doesn't matter because you are supposed to use thermal grease, which is designed to enable heat transfer between two surfaces that aren't perfectly smooth. The unmodified heatsinks that come with the retail processor are what you want to use if you don't overclock.

Many people think that the heatsinks that come with the processor are not adequate. However, the processor company goes through a lot of trouble to make sure adequate heat dissipation occurs. They have engineers for that. Without tests, you don't know what you are getting from a sexy looking heatsink from a small heatsink company. For all you know, they may use artists to design them and not engineers.

Many people think that the more fins the better. This is not always the case because if the gap between the fins is smaller than the boundary layer thickness of the hot air mass rising through convection, heat dissapation will suffer.

Where did you get that huge glass plate and how much did it cost? I think my local glass store would want something upward of $100 for that plate...

-Jonathan Ward

[insulglass]

I understand your suggestion. I custom make 1/2 sheet kits on a frequent basis. Obviously, a quarter sheet is a standard sandpaper size, and it makes for little waste. As mentioned in the site FAQ, if anyone wants a custom size, all they have to do is drop me an email.

The glass I include is thin, but is intended to be used on top of another surface (countertop, workbench, table, etc) that is more sturdy but perhaps not as flat as the glass. This works rather well in practice, and gives a good combination of accuracy with lowered expense. Man, a piece of glass like you have would be nice! But a little steep to ship, eh? :-)

Yes. Typically, lapping a heat sink will provide 2-4 degrees C improvement at the CPU. this can be significant when overclocking your computer to push it to the limit.

Thanks for taking a look!

DAve [e-mail]

[AArDvarK]

Yes, I use Arctic Silver. Mine might be clear anodized, no color but there are those machining, grinding marks, pretty minor, those hills and valleys might not be too good for overclockers. I can see why.

That sounds about right, mine is the original h-sink that came with the P4. I build my own comps when it comes time for a hardware upgrade. Never overheated yet, even with the recent dust caking I removed! Works well.

Never knew that!

Nearby there is an "antique slash old stuff slash junk shop" and yard full of all kinds of stuff. He charged me $10 for the glass, but it does have a very minor crack, into one side about 1" in from an edge, and a little curled. I would like to find if there is some kinda chemical that seeps in and solidifies, but I do not believe it will continue as lying flat, and gently used. I could have the whole side/edge cut off I suppose. This business is about 100 miles north from L. A. CA.

Alex

[bridger]

I like full sheet lapping plates. Gives me lots of room for varying my stroke.

I think you'll find that sharpening steel cutters on glass involves higher pushing forces than lapping heat sinks. the glass does need to be thicker (and longer).

you're hitting an underserved market here. there are a few vendors now supplying lapping kits to the woodworking public, but there's lots of room for growth. what you do need to do is tailor your product a bit. for instance, a number of us use a granite or marble tile for the plate. this has the advantage of being less fragile than glass and readily available in thicker sizes, and if bought right not really more expensive. consider that your kit is competing with sharpening stones that cost on the order of $50.00 each and you will see that changes to your kit that double or tripple the cost are no impediment to sales.

[TeamCasa]

DAGS for Granite Surface Plate. I picked one up at an auction (12"x18" Inspection grade) for $25. Much flatter than any piece or glass, float or otherwise.

Dave

[David]

you should be using grease designed to maximize heat transfer. I think it's sold as "heat sink grease". To me it appears to be silicone, and I've used it before, but truly don't know what it is made of.

David

AArDvarK wrote:

[Charles Spitzer]

try yard sales for dining room tabletops. i recently bought a 6'x4'x3/4" glass top for $40, and i left them the base.

and for the curious, i make these out of them:

[Pat]

Hi Alex,

I wouldn't even try. Between the heat sink and CPU is a material that functions as a heat transfer medium. Regardless of how flat the heat sink is, that medium will fill any voids to begin with.

Trying to separate the heat sink from cpu can result in damage to the CPU. Intel advises not to even consider it, unless you have to change one or the other.

Pat

[TinWoodsmn]

Tin Woodsmn

[AArDvarK]

That's what Arctic Silver is exactly for, only better than the chip thermal grease you find at radio shack.

Alex

[AArDvarK]

Oh I remove that "gunk" before assembly and replace it with Arctic Silver. It's better stuff for heat transfer.

Alex

[AArDvarK]

Alex

[J. Clarke]

But the thermal conductivity of silicone paste is not as high as the thermal conductivity of copper or aluminum.

Not a reason to not do it, just a reason to be careful. So far I've managed to avoid damaging a CPU that way.

Where do they advise this?

[Steve]

As an FYI, a large woodworking retailer (hint, starts with an 'R') sells similar 'kits'. For about $6 they have either a course (220,320,400,600) or fine (800,1200,1500,2000) kit that includes two

4.5"x11" sheets of each grit (peel&stick Klingspor silicone carbide). The sheet size is just right, at least for me, and peel&stick is a nice convenience. I do my sharpening on scraps of MDF or melamine instead of glass (I just toss the scraps when the paper's worn out - no scraping and cleaning).

Steve

[insulglass]

Alex, excellent ideas! I spoke with my glass supplier today, I have some "full sheet" glass sections on the way in 1/4" thicknesses. Anything thicker requires a special order and long lead times. If used with a substrate, I think this would be OK.

I'm kicking around some other ideas as well. You guys have me thinking a bit. :-)

Dave [e-mail]

[CW]

Lap all you want on the heat sink, if the surface that it mates to isn't just as flat (doubtful) it won't gain you anything. You're right. the conductive grease will take care of it. I think this processor lapping business is about equivalent to the SWR compensated power cords the audio people are duped into buying, at $900.00 each.

[insulglass]

Actually, it DOES help. Typical improvement runs in the 2-4C range, some more, some less. I don't think I've ever had a customer report no improvement at all. For most casual computer users, a few degrees isn't a large enough drop to warrant a great deal of effort. However, if you 1) operate your computer in a setting where external heat is a factor, or 2) are pushing your CPU's capabilities such as overclocking

- then lapping may make a big difference.

Also, regarding mating surfaces.... keep in mind that CPUs are precision manufactured under very tight tolerances. CPU dies and heat shields are far more likely to be flat and smooth than heat sinks. You CAN lap a CPU that has a heat shield, and it WILL help improve the thermal transfer. It WILL void your warranty, though. :-)

Lastly, if you ever remove a heat sink from your CPU, clean it thoroughly and replace the white silicone goop with something better. I use Arctic Silver products, but there are plenty of other quality thermal interface materials available.

Dave [e-mail]