Storage Shed

[intrepid_dw]

Hi, all..

I'm building a simple 6 ft high 10' x 10' storage building in my backyard; wood frame, 4" concrete slab foundation, LP SmartSide paneling atop plywood sheathing for the exteriorm to be located in central Oklahoma. The interior will be unfinished (raw studs), and will have no utilties..just a simple building to hold lawn mowers and such.

Two questions I'd like to offer:

1. Is it overkill to wrap the plywood sheathing on a storage shed like this with something like Tyvec before applying the siding? Unless I'm an idiot (which is certainly possible), I've seen nothing from LP that shows a *requirement* for any kind of barrier between the sheathing and the SmartSide paneling...

1. This will be framed out of 2x4 lumber (PT sill plates even though it won't be touching the ground), and I plan to use 3/8" hot-dipped galvanized (non-aluminum) wedge anchors to secure the sill plates to the concrete - the question is how many per wall? It would seem that three would be about right - one approximately one foot from each corner, then one in the middle (each wall other than the front, where the door will go).

Hope the questions don't sound too dense, just trying to plan ahead before I start buying and hammering like a madman...

Thanks much for any feedback,

-intrepid

[Swingman]

Given the opportunity, I would do it, being anal myself. ;)

And for this application, I would personally prefer 15 lb felt (not "#15", you will have to make that distinction when ordering and remember that 15 lb felt requires about twice as much as "#15" to cover the same surface), instead of Tyvec.

Just my 'druthers with regard to the Tyvec versus felt.

Depending upon your area (hurricane or earthquake prone), I would say that

3/ten foot wall should be sufficient for shed purposes.

Be sure to properly tension the wedge anchors according to the spec sheet. IME, your concrete needs to be at full strength for wedge anchors to be effective and you really need to be careful that they are not too close to the edge of the concrete.

I prefer like material anchor bolts embedded in the concrete for this very reason.

YMMV ...

[Lew Hodgett]

Won't comment on your construction questions; however, if you build using 4 ft multiples (ie: 8W x 12L' x 8H) to build shed, you will save material as well as save your back by not having to bend over to get in the shed.

Lew

[RayV]

Unless you have serious wind issues you could used OSB instead of plywood for the sheathing to save a few $ or use T-111 plywood and skip the siding. No need for the Tyvek at all.

Sounds like your number of anchors is about right depending on the size of the anchors.

I would make it at least 8' high if code allows to facilitate standing upright and hanging rakes, shovels, etc.

[goaway]

1) The plywood stiffens the walls tremendously. Remember you will be hanging stuff on the walls. Never see a shed that did not. As far as OSB, I would not use it UNLESS you do in fact use the smart side. I built my shed 15 years ago with T11 with still no issues.

2) I did work in multiples of the plywood sizes, and a 8 foot ceiling has helped in many ways with storage.

3) If you use a peak or barn roof, and leave the eaves open for air, put the plasic window screening over the openings. Keeps the birds out :)

Good luck.

[Leon]

I built a shed and did not use sheathing at all. I used the Tyvec over instead of felt to cut down on the odor and to lighten the interior up. I let-in 1 x 4 cross bracing on all walls and used 12" wide cement fiber planks for the exterior. Solid as a rock.

[Thom]

I don't think I would wrap between ply and studs --- it's holding a lawn mower and etc. But being in an area that is subject to many tornadoes --- I'd either insure the building once complete or put in more anchors or both.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thom

[Leon]

Funny you should mention that, my shed handled the outer winds of a hurricane a couple of summers ago. That said, I doubt that your shed would hold up if it were hit by a tornado.

[Dave Herron]

1. I'd make the shed 8' tall.
2. I'd skip on the tyvec unless you have extreme weather in your area.
3. I'd pour the slab with the edges thickend to at least 18" and use

3 anchor bolts embedded in the concrete per side ( 4 on the door side ).

1. Be sure to follow the "shear" nailing requirements for the sheathing on the structure corners. Use a full sheet of plywood at the corners.

Just my 2 cents.

[intrepid_dw]

All:

Thanks for the great replies. I think I'll skip the wrap.

There were several great questions and suggestions along the way, so if I may, let me offer some "how come's" and "why for's...."

Why not build in multiples of 4? I can't build larger than 10' x 10' due to residential restrictive covenants, and I want to max out square footage.

Why not build 8' high? If I build a structure that exceeds 10' in

*overall* height - grade to peak - the city will require an excavated, steel-reinforced concrete footing, and that's WAY overboard for this kind of project.

Also, if I build the interior at 8' height, that gives me a maximum 2' height for a roof (to avoid the footing). That, in turn, translates to just about a 5-pitch roof, and I really don't want to build a roof quite that shallow.

Everyone's comments are greatly appreciated...please feel free to add anything else you guys think might be relevant.

Many thanks, intrepid

[HerHusband]

Intrepid,

Tyvec is mostly to let the building breathe, so moisture can't enter the wall but moisture in the house can get out. Plywood sheathing/siding will do about the same thing. In fact, our local building code doesn't require housewrap when using plywood siding (we didn't use housewrap when we built our house).

Of course, a shed shouldn't have much moisture in it anyway. At least not like showering, laundry, and cooking produces.

I'm not familiar with SmartSide paneling, but have you considered just using a rough sawn plywood (like T-111 without the grooves) for your sheathing? It can function as both sheathing and siding, saving lots of money. You could add battens if you want to give it more of an old style barn look.

Are you limited to 10'x10' or 100 square feet? An 8'x12' building would be 96 square feet, very close to that 100 sq/ft limit. My shed is 8x12 and I store a lawnmower, tiller, wheelbarrow, bicycle, gas brushcutter, chainsaw, a large assortment of rakes and shovels, lawn chemicals, and much more. Before I built my garage, I kept ladders, a tablesaw, and all of my woodworking equipment in there too. With a few shelves and hangers, you can pack a lot of stuff in that small space.

If you went with 8x12, you could have 6/12 pitch on each side of the roof and still meet the 10 foot height.

Otherwise, you could do a "shed" roof, with a single slope 10' in front to 7' in back (slightly over 6/12 pitch).

Or, use a "saltbox" design where you have a small roof slope on the front, and the majority of the slope is on the back side.

Or... Build a gambrel (barn shaped) roof. This will give you maximum space under the 10' peak.

Anthony

[Charley]

My barn/woodshop has one layer of 1/2 exterior plywood sheathing and then I nailed 1 X 2 vertical strips on it to simulate board and batten construction. No Tyvek or anything else on it. Two primer coats followed by

2 coats of latex house paint and it has held up quite well. After about 10 years I put another 2 coats of latex on it. It's now 23 years old with no siding problems at all and it looks like I'll get another 3 or 4 years before I have to paint it again. At the time that I built it I didn't have the money to do much else, but it's been holding up so well that I'll not likely ever put the vinyl on it that I had planned for. The inside is insulated and it's heated/air conditioned most of the year with no moisture problems showing so far. I don't do steam bending or anything else that would generate lots of moisture though. The coffee pot is the only steam/moisture generator other than what my sweat and brain activity releases.

[intrepid_dw]

Unfortunately, the covenants expressly state a single building no more than 10' x 10', not a limit on square footage. One person who lived across the street from me (albeit several years ago) exceeded this limit in his building by (IIRC) one foot, and someone raised *&#(*$ about it. My actual exterior "frame" dimsension is 9' 9" x 9' 9", which allows me 1-1/2" of sheathing, siding, and trim all the way around, so if some anal-retentive neighbor with nothing better to do jumps my fence and measures it, it'll meet the requirements.

These limits are about the only time I've ever really wished I had about a half-acre of land outside the city so I could just build a true workshop, which is what I need, but can't build on our lot...but that's another discussion...

-intrepid

[Frank Stutzman]

I'm just outside city limits of a town that has some simular covenants. I've seen some creative ways around it. One fellow built a shed that

10' x 10' footprint, but the walls sloped outward. Another built a normal 10' x 10' building but his eaves on both sides extended nearly to the ground.

I can't help thinking that some of this was done just to upset the covenant police.

[B A R R Y]

In our area, anything over 100 sq/ft is taxed and subject to codes. Under 100 is not taxed, and needs no permit.

[HerHusband]

Intrepid,

Bummer. That "single building" clause would probably rule out building a couple of 8x8 sheds then... :)

It defeats your purpose, but I wonder if you could build a 10x10 shed with a basement? Sublevels 1, 2, and 3 maybe? :)

Maybe you could build an underground 20' square shop, then plant a lawn over the top? Nothing visible to bug the neighbors.

Do you have any restrictions on trailers or a second truck? You could always pick up a used moving van and use it for storage.

Anthony

[intrepid_dw]

As I mentioned, I'll be siding this with LP SmartPanel over plywood, and that brings up a question.

The instructions say to install the SmartPanels a minimum of 6" off the ground/grade, but the concrete pad for this storage building is actually (very) slightly larger than the building (and the surrounding grade slopes away from it in all directions), so the bottom edge of the panel isn't directly over the "ground" per se -- its over finished, dried, hard concrete. I'm wondering if that 6" rule still applies. I'm guessing that's for the purposes of avoiding splash, but given that the ground terraces away from the building, it doesn't seem necessary.

If it's still necessary, I presume that implies I need to shorten the panels to allow what would amount to a 6" bottom exposure of the plywood sheathing.... I suppose I could just put some trim along that bottom edge all the way around..to cover it, but it just seems unnecessary given the way I'm planning to build it..

Thoughts?

-intrepid

[Patriarch]

intrepid [e-mail] wrote in news:1179425468.293936.87780 @y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

Ten years ago, we went house shopping. One of the first questions the wife had for the realtor was "Is there a homeowners' association?"

I feel your pain.

Patriarch

[HerHusband]

Intrepid,

Generally, yes, you want all wood to be at least 6" from the ground, unless it's pressure treated lumber rated for ground contact. Even then, it's wise to keep it away from the ground (moisture, insects, etc.).

However, if your slab sticks out farther than the sides of the wall, I think you're going to have bigger problems. All the water that hits the slab, or runs down the wall to the slab, is going to be able to "seep" under the wall and into your shed. Probably not what you're wanting...

Ideally, the sill plate should be pressure treated and bolted to the slab (it can be the bottom plate of the stud wall if you wish). The siding should then extend down beyond the sill, overlapping the foundation by about an inch. In other words, rain running down the wall will get to the bottom of the siding and drip off to the ground, instead of running down under the wall framing.

I don't know how much is "slightly larger", but if you're only talking an inch or so, you might be able to flare the siding out a little at the bottom so it overlaps the foundation. Or, maybe you could add furring strips to the plywood to bring the siding flush with the foundation. Of course, it would be a lot nicer to just size the framing to the size of the slab in the first place.

You "could" install a large trim board at the bottom (sometimes called a water table), preferably with flashing to prevent water from seeping down behind the trim. I'd cut the top edge at a slope to encourage water to run away. But again, it's better to avoid horizontal joints like that.

Anthony

[HerHusband]

We have an expensive housing development across the road from us. They came in to our natural forested area, logged off all the trees, put in paved drives and gigantic gates, banged up some huge million dollar homes, and are currently building a monstrosity about 100 feet from us that sits up on the hill staring down at everything we do.

Since the development started going in, virtually all of the wildlife we used to enjoy has disappeared, and our rural country home now sits in the shadows of a mansion. Not to mention the sudden increase in our property value and the associated tax increases.

Of course, "THEY" have restrictions on what the owners can and can't do so they don't detract from the "neighborhood". Yeah right... We wouldn't want to offend the neighbors... I guess us folks down here in the servants quarters don't matter. :)

Anthony