seem to be about four or five of these single stage units out there, and given their limitations, they seem to work pretty well. I have a friend of mine that didn't want to spend a lot as he wasn't going to use it much, and he bought one of these. He bought it to use on a small deck, and he has now stained everything that can't run away from him.
He wags that thing around like a leaf blower, and has stained and sealed decks, handrails, etc.for everyone in his family. We were even able to get it to spray some clear urethane at about 30 - 40% thinned, and the finish looked pretty damn good.
This is the better one of the two they sell, and it would probably be great for someone looking to get a small system or to try out HVLP. I can't buy an aircap for my Fuji for the $33 they are asking for it in the ad.
We all know HF; just keep the receipt in case you get a dud.
Was that Swing I heard in the background jingling the truck keys?? You should know Leon, this IS about half price. ;^)
In all honesty, I am thinking of getting one of these just to try it out. With two CAS guns and two turbine guns I need it like a hole in the head, but inquiring minds, you know...
end HVLP unit. Considering over > fifty percent of the class was woodworking newbies
How low end? Was it a single or two stage setup? CAS (compressor) or turbine powered?
It wasn't for me on all finishes. Shooting some finishes were much harder than others. A rapidly warming day in 90% humidity with a gun full of lacquer finishing in a builder's garage might make you rethink that. The good news is that some of the manufacturers are tailoring some of their finishes to work with HVLP. At least that's what they told me.
I agree. I have the guys at WoodCraft thinking that they would like me to give a weekend class on using one of these bargain units as they either sell or are thinking of selling their version. I couldn't buy half of >one< of my CAS guns for what that whole HF system costs, much less my turbine setup with two guns.
For $33 you could sure get a cheap education on gun use and setup without breaking the bank. Then you could decided if you needed to get something larger later.
I took a seminar at Lee Valley Tools last Saturday with Peter Boeckh on wood finishing and he spent a good portion of the seminar lauding HVLP. We finished the class by applying three coats of urethane with a low end HVLP unit. Considering over fifty percent of the class was woodworking newbies including women, the finish results were outstanding. The learning curve with an HVLP unit is very low. Well worth the investment.
Peter said it cost about $500. It > wasn't a loud machine and functioned well
nonsense machine. When I was looking around at machines, I found out that almost all machines that go 2 stages and above use the same turbine assembly from the same manufacturer.
Different housings, paint, filtering systems, etc., but the guts were the same. I know Lemmer uses these good quality turbines, too.
I think once you start getting into the better machines, almost all of them cost within a $100 or so of each other. I know when I shopped really hard when trying to figure out which setup to buy, but price wasn't the deciding factor as the setup and accessories I wanted all came out to be about $1400 or so to the door.
It came down to the choice of guns for me.
Do you remember what brand of urethane you sprayed and if it was thinned before applying? If so, how much?
I have a four stage setup so I don't have to thin much of anything on good weather days but I have always wondered about the 2 & 3 stage setups.
If I remember rightly, it was a Lemmer (I think a T-75Q), 2 stage turbine. Peter said it cost about $500. It wasn't a loud machine and functioned well for the 8-10 students who attended the seminar.
If I remember rightly, it was a Lemmer (I think a T-75Q), 2 stage turbine. Peter said it cost about $500. It wasn't a loud machine and functioned well for the 8-10 students who attended the seminar.
Sorry, I can't answer either of those questions. Peter did give us quite a bit of information on thinning, but I don't remember if he actually thinned the urethane in that case. I think he did considering that we all applied three coats of urethane in fairly rapid succession and it was drying in the five minutes between each coat.
bit of information on thinning, but I don't >remember if he actually thinned the urethane in that case. I >think he did considering that we all applied
five minutes between each coat.
A man after my own heart. I would rather apply thin coats of a finish like this in rapid succession than apply medium thick coats as suggested by the manufacturer. You have to be familiar with the actual manufacturer's finish to do it, but it works well when you can.
If you were dry to the touch, or even dry enough for a second coat to hang without sags, it was thinned quite a bit. Spraying a coat urethane thin enough to kick in five minutes won't do it by itself.
I just picked up one today and can say it seems to work pretty nicely. Of course, this it the first HVLP system I've ever used, so I have no idea what I'm doing. :)
I've been strugling to get a dark enough finish on a particular piece and rubbing in a coat of gel stain, wait a day, rub in another coat, wait a day, was not getting no where. I just now mixed up some Zinsser SealCoat shellac with some Mixol dyes and started shooting at a piece of scrap. I liked what I was seeing on the scrap, so I started shooting my project with the HVLP gun and the concoction I had put together. I did get a little bit of a run on one part of the project, but I'll be able to sand that out real quick and fix it when I apply another coat in a couple of hours. So far, within the space of about an hour, I've been able to get the finish almost to the darkness I want. With the second coat, it'll be right where it needs to be.
So far, I'd say this little HF HVLP gun has been worth the money in the amount of time and frustration this is going to save me.
I bought a Wagner blow-dryer-with-paint-nozzle-attached a couple weeks ago and just used it for the first time today.
It's a whole new world. Painting just became fun. ;-)
Looking at it, I think that maybe the HF unit might be the better of the two, though. First, the HF unit is simply less money. That matters to me. Second, and more importantly, the Wagner makes you carry the blower unit in your hand with the paint & nozzle. I painted two "Jakes Chairs" (just the primer on loose parts -- nothing to post to abpw yet) with thinned primer today ... high temp (92f) and humidity in the absurd range.
Not too bad.
I'll have to knock it back with a quick shot of sandpaper tomorrow, but no brush strokes, no runs, no sags.
But that blower mounted in your hand is weight that will wear on ya. A pound at arms length gets heavy a couple hours in. I'm gonna keep my Wagner. But I'm thinking about getting the HF unit, too.
I'm not going to comment on your Wagner because I've never owned or used one, but they don't have the best reputation in the finishing community.
I'd recommend a Lemmer if you're going to start getting serious about HVLP.
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I think you'd find that even the starter T-55Q HLVP turbine system would put the Wagner to shame. Approximately $500 and it is a pretty decent machine.
As I said, I haven't used a Wagner, so I can't point to individual differences. All I can do in that area is accede to the comments I've read on Wagner deficiencies as posted by many others here. Maybe that's hearsay, but I accept it. As to the Lemmer, it's easy to set up, sprays very evenly, cleans up easily and appears to be considerably more versatile. When I see
10 people using one Lemmer doing three coats each over the total space of an hour with excellent results, then that's enough to convince me that the extra money is worth it. Considering that the Wagner is marketed directly to the home consumer market is enough to convince me that it wouldn't come close to Lemmer capability.
As to details, others with Wagner experience might respond with why a Lemmer is a better tool than a Wagner.
BillinDetroit wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:
I've been away on business, so I'm late to this party, but...
Almost any Wagner that works initially, refuses to do so again the second or third time it is used. I believe, based on no investigation whatsoever, that various bits and pieces are not particularly resistant to the materials that flow through and by them in use and cleaning.
Now I've only tried to use three or four of these gems over the years, provided by friends who were, at one point, happy with their performance. I never was. Probably just me, being an elitist.
But I can buy a Purdy brush for less than $20, and use it for 20 years. And it usually does the job pretty well.
YMMV.
Patriarch, not a Wagner fan, unless it's German classical music...
I LOVE Purdy brushes, and use them all the time with varnish and paint. Purdy makes some of the best brushes around and they're worth the investment. I now own a really nice, pro grade, HVLP unit that's beyond the scope of this discussion and capable of flawless work.
That said, the $69 HF HVLP I started out with applied nitrocellulose and water base lacquer, vinyl sealer (Quick 15), and Zinnser Sealcoat better than my Purdy brushes.
My question is not whether a Lemmer is a better sprayer than a Wagner -- nearly ANY sprayer is likely to be at least as good as the Wagner and most are probably better.
What I put on the table was not a challenge, but a request for information.
What does the Lemmer bring to the table that would warrant a $500 price tag even if Wagner (or HF) HVLP sprayers didn't exist? What justifies a $400+ spread between it and these two bargain basement sprayers?
I'm not doing high-volume production painting. I just want to paint a few chairs, some planting boxes and the neighbors cat. Maybe re-paint the garage exterior in the fall and paint the interior for the first time ever. Or even paint over the rust on my chain link fence.
I don't think that a professional would even consider a Wagner. Why would a home-owner / hobbyist consider a Lemmer?
even if Wagner (or HF) HVLP >sprayers didn't exist? What justifies a $400+ spread between it and these two bargain basement sprayers?
The Lemmer guys have been around forever. They are known in the industry to make a no frills system that is dependable and works well. I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining about the actual qualityof their Lemmer.
Metal parts where needed, an ACTUAL turbine spray system with a real turbine, and years of use would make my vote.
home-owner / hobbyist consider >a Lemmer?
Wagner in the past has made some good products in their upper end of sprayers, etc. I am not sure that is the case anymore. The Wagner Corporation is so large now that they are becoming the Black and Decker of the sprayer world. Parts are made here and there, and tools that work so/so in some cases.
I would certainly look at one of those $100 HVLP setups before I would look at anything Wagner had to offer. That little system will throw a pretty good pattern and give you a chance to learn HVLP.
My experience with Wagner has been inconsistent results, the inability of their machines to accurately apply finishes, and then the cantankerous nature of their machines. That being said, I do have one of the biggest buzz guns that I bought when my airless was being repaired and have used it quite a bit. I used it when I bought it to paint a small one story house and it ate up the deal. Now I use it to spray decks and fences with solvent based materials since I don't want that stuff in my airless setup (latex only in mine!)
I think if I was looking at a Lemmer, I would buy a Fuji Mini Mite. It has a newer, more effiecient gun, and it is a real HVLP turbine you could use to paint and finish your projects and get great utility value from it for years to come. The service behind the product is great if you buy from one of their dealers.
If you like, I will get you the name of the dealer I went to as he is great. I am pretty sure Barry bought his from the same guy.
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