Repair/reinforcement of double pedestal desk

[bob prohaska]

I would like to repair and reinforce a 1930's Lincoln double pedestal office desk to use as a base for a metalworking lathe. The desk appears to have been made by the Commercial Furniture Company of Chicago. It's well-used but no wood is broken, however one mortise and tenon joint in a leg has come apart.

It's not obvious to me how to disassemble it for repair, nor what adhesives to use. Since it was mass-produced, I'm hopeful that somebody will know how to get it apart without further damage. Web searches came up empty, so the subject is obscure or I didn't use the right keywords.

One curious thing (to me) is that many of the plywood panels in drawer bottoms and pedestal sides appear to be free-floating in their rabbets. Seems that the desk would be much stronger if they were glued in place. Did they just come loose over time?

The desk is nice enough that I don't want to butcher it, but since it was sitting by the curb with a "free" tag on it it's unlikely to be a treasure warranting museum treatment.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

[Ed Pawlowski]

Why not post a couple of photos of it just in case? People have tossed some real treasures due to lack of knowledge.

I don't think it would be my first choice for a lathe in any case.

[bob prohaska]

Probably a good idea, it'll provide an opportunity to show the damage as well. In the meantime I hope somebody chimes in with some guidance on how it went together. It's rather surprising there isn't more info on the Web, the Commercial Furniture Company was apparently a big deal at one time.

Mor is it mine, but it's an improvement over the existing bench.

Thanks for replying!

bob prohaska

[Sonny]

The top should separate from the pedestals'assembly fairly easily. If ther e's not any fasteners readily visible on the exterior, then they are inside the carcass, inside the drawers. Probably metal fasteners, like "L" brac kets.

Once the top is off, the two pedestals are held together by a spanning elem ent (panel), between the two. Again, there is likely metal fasteners hold ing the spanning element to each pedestal.

If there is no visible fasteners, look closely for a screw site. The scre w may be recessed, with a plug hiding the screw head. The spanning panel would likely have to be fairly thick, to have recessed screws, that way.

I think you would need to remove the top and probably the spanning panel, b efore you can properly access the damaged leg(s). I would think there is more than one M&T joint along each leg and, if one is disjointed, then the other has likely been compromised, as well.

The general design of almost every double pedestal desk is very similar. Rather than google Lincoln pedestal desk, try oak roll top desk. I highly suspect your desk is assembled, basically, the same way, in some similar fa shion.

Once your basic assembly is disassembled, then you can address the assembly (repair) of any individual part. If your desk is assembled differently, in some unique way, then maybe you have some special piece of furniture.

Yep, pics would definitely help.

Sonny

[Sonny]

Maybe look for some top attachment as this assembly:

Sonny

[Dr. Deb]

UNLESS you are intending to mount a mini-lathe forget it. On the joint, yo u will have to completely remove that stile, which means opening up the oth er joints. Given the age, a heat gun may well soften the glue in the joint s enough to allow you to get the stile off. Depending on the condition of the original, offending, joint, you might want to consider two part epoxy f or reassembly.

[Sonny]

A friend asked me to repair her oak roll top desk.... it's still in my shop . One castor collapsed, so the support board had broken, detached. The whole desk is in horrible shape, not only after obviously having been rack ed, because of the broken castor unit, but the rest of the desk is filthy-d irty and the roll top (canvas attachment is dry-rotted, crumbling) is falli ng apart, completely. Initially, I was to repair the castor issue, only, b ut once I told her of other issues, she wanted me to do, what amounted to, a complete restoration. I told her "No way. Get a dedicated restorer to do it."

Considering how double pedestal desks are constructed, if your desk has a M &T joint issue, there may very likely be other issues with the desk. How m ight your desk have become damaged, that way (only one M&T joint?), as it h as? I can't imagine it has only that one damage issue. There may very we ll likely be other issues with your desk. You better inspect it carefully, if you will use it for a metal lathe support.... or any lathe support.

Sonny

[Scott Lurndal]

The panels are supposed to float because they expand and contract with changes in humidity. If they were glued in place, they'd crack or blow out the cope&stick mortices. Now generally, that only applies to solid wood panels, but it doesn't hurt to leave plywood panels floating.

[bob prohaska]

Ok, I've put a few pictures at

There are metal clips, each with a single screw, under the edge of the top at the juncture with the legs, plus two in the middle of the ends. Evidently I should start by removing the screws to see if the top will then lift off.

The damaged M&T joint is at the occupant's far right. I'd imagine it was whacked on something while being moved. No other damage is apparent.

The lathe is an old South Bend 10K, about 300 lbs, with 48" bed. It will span the pedestals nicely. The reinforcement plan is to mount a false top, possibly a laminate countertop section, with the lathe bolted to that. I'm also contemplating bolting/screwing a sheet of plywood to the bottom of the desk, covering the foot-hole, to make a box structure. I believe that will offer considerable reinforcement.

Thanks to all for reading, looking and guiding!

bob prohaska

[dadiOH]

I looked at your pix. If it were me I'd wipe some thickened epoxy on the loosened tenon and whack it home. If you are a worrier, pin the tenon by drilling through from the outside and inserting a dowel or two. You could dowel the joints that aren't separated too.

You aren't planning on putting much of a load on it and the load will all be downward. That should have no effect on the pedestal structures separating. I am sure many will say, "No, no, you need to disassemble all, clean and reassemble so the thing has the approximate strength of a battleship". That is their opinion, not mine. Why do you think it needs reinforcement?

[woodchucker]

I have a Southbend 9A I would recommend you pick up a oil plan , the type you slide under the car to catch drips. Mine is always full of oil from the cutting oil.

That desk has no value other than what value you put in it. If you have MT that are loose, see if you can pry it open slightly and use heat to re-activate the hide glue in there, then clamp it If not see if yellow glue will bond it. Epoxy will also work. You can dowel peg the MT to keep them tight, don't use big honking dowels, use small ones that hold the Tenon in the Mortise.

[woodchucker]

I disagree. That MT looks vertical, and will offer plenty of support if done correctly.

[Ed Pawlowski]

From the minimal research I did, it looks like it could be worth a few hundred if refinished. The ones selling for $10k and up are a bit fancier.

[bob prohaska]

Sorry, the photo is confusing (I had the desk tipped up on end) and the loose mortise and tenon joint is horizontal. If one sits at the desk and scoots it to the writer's left the joint opens.

Apologies for the confusion!

bob prohaska

>

[bob prohaska]

Mostly I don't want to mount the lathe and then discover the desk is coming apart under it. It's relatively little work to add gussets and whatnot now, it'll be a lot more work later. There's also some good chance the lathe will get scooted around the garage on a jack to make clearance for other work from time to time. That's apt to be hard on the desk, no matter how careful I am.

Basically it's the ounce of prevention versus the pound of cure syndrome.

8-)

bob prohaska

[bob prohaska]

That sounds plausible, but after one takes out the cost of materials I suspect the net for the refinisher would be no more than $20/hr.

bob prohaska

[bob prohaska]

I'm very glad you wrote, being otherwise tempted to glue them in!

With my thanks,

bob prohaska

[Ed Pawlowski]

Hard to evaluate from a photo, but it is not just about money. If it is solid wood with good joinery you can end up with a really nice piece of furniture. If it is cheap veneer and termite ridden and delaminating, not worth the effort but could make a nice fire. I did see one old desk that would be nice for the grandkids to use to color on. It was $48,000.

[bob prohaska]

That you didn't add a smiley face suggests high esteem for their artistry!

Here are two more photos of the damage, taken with the top off and the break sprung open a little:

It looks fairly straightforward to re-coat the joint with glue and push it back together. That leaves the dilemma of which glue to use.

The drops of old glue strewn around soften slowly and get slimy when dampened with cold water, so it's likely to be hide glue. The only hide glue I've seen at local retail is TiteBond liquid hide glue, but I'm a little wary of it. Seems like it would be prone to spoilage on the shelf. Does anybody following this thread have good experience with it?

Granulated hide glue is available on the web and not necessarily expensive; is it worth the extra time and trouble? If you have a brand or supplier recommendation please share it.

Thanks to all for reading and guiding a novice!

bob prohaska

[Sonny]

I vote epoxy and dowel, also.

That fracture full length - scrape off the dried glue and epoxy that dislod ged joint... maybe epoxy a block along the length, as well, is there's enou gh space. I think this is a close-up pic, which looks like a panel. The next pic (fracture top view) is, as you say, more clear of the situation. Again, I vote epoxy & pin.... minus the previously suggested block along th e length.

Medallion indicates 1930-1940, if you hadn't already known.

Desk top looks like it has been used as a work bench/table.

I'm gonna go out on a limb. The desk is in pretty good structural shape. Clean it up and refinish it, make it look like a desk, again. Place a new top over the original, without damaging the refinished top. The desk does n't appear to need reinforcing, for your lathe, so maybe rethink that.

As for as modifying the structure, for moving the lathe work desk/table, co nsider making a mobile base, with a foot lever to lift one end for lifting off the rollers on one end, then lowering the lever places the feet back on the floor. There is one or two guys... Jeff?, aka WoodChucker..., here, that has built a mobile base feature for their work benches or one of their tools.... I can't recall.

I'm partial to old furniture, that's why I would try to preserve the desk, itself, if reasonable. Just a thought of mine.

Yeah, and collect some 1930s - 1940s pennies and stash them in your lathe c abinet, as well. *Additional medallions.

Sonny