rail and stile vs cope and stick

[Mike in Arkansas]

Is a "rail and stile" router bit set the same as a "cope and stick" set? If not, whats the difference between the two? I am planning to build some kitchen doors using glass. Not sure I if want to do real lites or fake mullions that will sit on top of the glass. if there is a difference between the two bit sets will either one of the set do either of the real/fake options? thanks

[Teamcasa]

I have used these : CMT's Lonnie Bird's Divided light door set. They are great as they allow you to make a full length tenon as opposed to a cope and stick joint. Kitchen cabinet doors with glass lights get a ton of abuse. The full tenon adds the required strength. Note: a little practice goes a long way to make these joints perfect.

Dave

[Mike in Arkansas]

Thanks Dave. Is that set usable for making true divided lite AND fake mullions? Mike

[Teamcasa]

Mike, If fake means mullions that sit on top of a full sheet of glass, I suppose. You would just have to cut the mullion back flush.

Dave

[no(SPAM)vasys]

Rail - The horizontal part of a raised panel door

Stile - The vertical part of a raised panel door

cope and stick - A method of construction raised panel doors where the tongues of the rails (horizontal) connect to the grooves of the stiles (vertical).

"Rail and Stile" construction could be "cope and stick" but then again it might not be.

The router bit sets are designed for "cope and stick".

[Mike in Arkansas]

Please excuse me for being dense but I have never been exposed to any kind of rail and stile or cope and stick work or tools. I looked at the Lonnie Bird divided light set. If I understand correctly, it shapes the profile of the rail and stiles as well as the mullions. Is that correct? The picture that is illustrated in all the web sites I visited trying to find more info shows only a mullion shaped on the side with the coped matching mullion at a perpendicular angle.

. The coped end has a tenon that is shaped by the bit set. The tenon fits into a mortise on the shaped mullion side. How is the mortise formed? Is it a function somehow of the bit set or is it formed seperately with another tool? Mike who is profoundly confused by an evidently simple situation

[Chris Friesen]

I believe the tennon is not shaped by the bit set, as it talks about how it allows you to use full-length tennons.

Same as any other mortise. Drill press, router, chisel, etc.

Essentially, the router bits are there to give you edge treatments on the inside of the frame. The joinery of the frame itself is separate.

Chris

[charlie b]

Excuse the ASCII illustrations. A line drawing would've been clearer but images aren't allowed in this group.

+-+--------+-+ | | RAIL | | | +--------+ | |S | | | |T | | | |I | Panel | | |L | | | |E | | | | | | | | +--------+ | | | | | +-+--------+-+

The stiles have their inside "with the grain" edges profiled (in the following example the profile is a simple chamfer) and a groove between them that acts as a dado into which the panel will fit AND as an open ended mortise for the stub "tenon" on the ends of the rails to fit in. Both the chamfer (or other profile) and the dado/open ended mortise are cut with a single router bit - the stile bit

STILE / / / / / / / / / / / / +-------------- / / / / +/ RAIL / / / / // +------+ / / /+------------- | \ / / / \ | +--+ / +-- + | | / / | Stub "tenon" | +--+ +--+ | / / +------+ +------------ The end grain ends of the rails are "coped" to match the chamfered inside edge of the stiles and a stub tenon to fit in the open ended "mortise"/ dado in the stile. All are cut with one bit - the rail bit.

Note that the inside/panel side edge of the rail also has a chamfered edge AND a dado for the panel to fit in. This inside edge, though on a rail, is cut with the stile router bit

When the Rail and Stile are put together they fit like this

/ / / PANEL / / / / /+-------------- / STILE // RAIL / // +------+ +------------- | \ \ | +--+ + | | | +--++ | / / +------+ +-------------

If you are doing multiple panels within the enclosing rails and stiles, the parts that will hold the "inside" sides of the panels (raised wood panels or glass panels) have a separate set of names to distinguish them from rails and stiles, because they have a dado/groove in both long grain edges - and typically also a profile cut on both long grain edges. Mullion/Muton? | | | | -------+ +----- \ / ++ Muton/MullioN? / \ -------+ +------- | | | |

Hopefully this will clarify things a little

- or not.

charlie b

[Jim]

You don't have raised panel doors in your house?

You use the cope and stick router bits to form the edges of the rails and edges and ends of the stiles so that you can glue the door together. You use the cope and stick router bits to form the edges and ends of the mullions.

Jim

[Mike in Arkansas]

Thanks to all for your replies. Nice ascii art Charlie. Jeez how long did it take you to do that?

[charlie b]

Maybe 10 minutes - edge profile was simple straight line chamfer - but sufficient to illustrate the stile and coped rail idea.

For illustrating more complicated joints I'm using a simple paint mode and object drawing program called Aldus Super Paint - last updated in 1993. Adobe bought Aldus and shelved this application because it competed with their Illustrator application - at about one third the price. They MicroSofted their competitor. Can you think of a 1993 MicroSoft product that still works today - and worth using today?

Anyway, I'm starting to put together some web pages on interesting joints - using SuperPaint. Posted this one to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking a month or two ago.

b