I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month woodworking budget.
2) I'm in no hurry to complete projects. A evening spent sharpening a chisel on sandpaper sounds like time well spent.
3) I really, really like quiet (see two todlers in #1).
4) I'm a natural klutz and would like to keep all my fingers.
5) My Basset Hound is terrified of power tools.
Budget constraints being what they are, I'm trying to create a strict schedule of tools needs and what order they should be picked up. I have: Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...) Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...) Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all hand-downs from dad. A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools and a LOT of sweat.
I used to work at a public library so I did some reading: Lee's Sharpending book, Landis workbench book, Peter Korn's Working with Wood and Hack's book on handplanes.
If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would you pick up? Would you abandon the whole exercise as futile? My apologies if this topic has already been addressed - I've tried to do my homework on the faqs.
eBay? Craigslist? Local classifieds for estate sales etc.? If I were you, I'd look for better used planes (maybe some pre-WWII Stanleys from ebay, or from a more reputable used/antique tool dealer online). Depending on the condition of your saws, I'd also look into a japanese saw - maybe a ryoba with both crosscut and rip teeth. More chisels seems like a logical step also. Better (older) chisels might hold an edge better, and practice sharpening will definitely help too (I'm in the middle of that process myself). So far, I've used black wet/dry sandpaper for sharpening, and a combination waterstone for the finer grits. I just got a Veritas Mk.II honing guide, but the good old $11 gray and black wheel honing guide is definitely functional, just harder to keep the blade at the same position each time you sharpen. Do you want my good old gray and black honing guide for a good discount?
formatting link
I'm by no means a real neander, but I'm getting to appreciate handplanes and chisels more and more. I haven't really gotten to appreciate handsaws in the same way, but my shop in the basement of my apartment is right under my neighbor's living room, so when she's home, I try to avoid power tools, so I've been doing some handsawing. Have fun and let us know what comes out of your quiet shop, Andy
Scraper/Burnisher (although for a burnisher, Taig Frid says to use the shaft of a chisel) Metal file (for the scraper) sandpaper Sander block Combination Square Framing Square sandpaper Miter block (you might be able to make one if you are careful) Awl/center punch sharpening thingies (Scary Sharp, Waterstones, etc.) Rasps More chisels sandpaper Carving/whittling tools Soft blow hammer sandpaper
There's a lot you can made and do using this stuff. Bench hook Holders for sharpening stones Shooting frame Miter block Toolbox
and then you get to make stuff for SHMBO.
Recipe box. Jewelry box. Tons of stuff you can do carving. Spoons, etc.
and more books :-)
Best of luck.
It's doable. I think people should learn some of the basics before they power up. Learn to tune your planes and see what a different that makes.
I went through a Technical college and trained as a Technical Studies Teacher (woodwork, metalwork , plastics etc.).
All projects for the lower high school students were done with handtools.
It teaches you to learn how to do things rather than what power tool do I shove this in.
Don't sharpen chisels, plane blades etc on sandpaper. Emery paper, wet-and dry paper in an emergency. Invest a few dollars on an oilstone.
If you can not get a sharp edge on a chisel review your technique. You should be looking for a facet of maybe 1/8" at the cutting edge. If the edge is too thick it might need to be ground.
You will be limited if you only have a 1" chisel. Sets of chisels can be had fairly cheap. A small bench grinder is essential to getting things sharp.
A good metal ruler, square, the thingy for marking thickness (marking gauge ?), a small very sharp knife for marking, sharp hb pencil , clamps, tenon saw, scraper.
Here we're venturing into the tool-collecting hobby again. I would say purchase of tools depends on what you're making. Tools for making rocking chairs would differ from tools for making cabinets would differ from tools for carving. Let your projects dictate what you should buy next and don't spend so much time thinking about how you're going to spend $200 on tools in the next nine months. As you have a need for a tool, pick it up. If you can't afford to pick it up, find a way to use what you have until you can. But asking a bunch of guys in a newsgroup what tools you should buy will just get you a bunch of assorted suggestions that may have nothing to do with what you actually need to accomplish your projects.
Mon, Jan 9, 2006, 11:55am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@samfnet.com (Mighty=A0Quinn) needeth to be told what to doeth: If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would you pick up?
Free wood.
And, if you still remember where the library is, go back, and pick up a book on how to make your own tools.
JOAT You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear". What do you "know"?
The later model Stanley planes can be just fine, they are not as well made as the pre WWII models, but they can be made to work perfectly. Point of reference Charlesworth in his hand plane video uses a British made Stanley of recent vintage and a new iron.
SO I would recommend an A2 steel iron in your handplane first. That takes care of month one and two.
How much do you have for wood? How much industrial business is there within a short distance of home or on the way home? Dunnage can be a good source of lumber if you are not in a hurry.
Are your saws sharp and have the correct kerf? From there I would start making furniture, a hand scraper should be on your list, and a trip to a pawn shop could turn up the file for a few dollars less.
My local pawn shops even have chisels once in a while. You might look at the HF chisel set for under $10.00, although I spent some money on Ebay myself for most of my chisels. The ones from Japanwoodworker take a LOT of work to get going, but you could buy 3 of them for $50.00 and be a long ways towards work.
Nice to meet you! I'm in the same boat, but for slightly different reasons. Replace #1 with second floor apartment, shop in spare room and #5 with Cat and we could be twins :-)
Used/antique handtools can be a great bargin if you shop for 'users' not collectors items, especially if you're willing/able to clean and tune them yourself. Check out
formatting link
aquiring good old tools. Walt's a nice guy and a font of useful information on old tools.
What order you buy tools really depends on what you need to do. As I've been going along my own neander journey I've found it's been easiest to buy my tools as the need for them arises for a project. It's hard, when you're new, to know just what you'll find useful ahead of time since you not only don't have the experience with tools required you also don't know what kind of projects you'll enjoy working on, till you've done a few. What type of projects you'll work on, determines what tools you'll need.
Ok given what you've already got here's what I can think of that you need next, in no particular order.
Sharpening setup for your saws and edge tools. Scary Sharp works great for edge tools and the kit from Rockler is a pretty good deal I think. I put together my own SS setup before I saw the one Rocker is selling but I've started using their PSA back paper, it's good stuff IMO. For a saw all you really need is a vise, a triangular metal file and a few shop made aligntment tools (see links below for more info) I'll be trying this for the first time "real soon now"
A vise of some sort for your bench. Amazon has a, well let's say functional Wilton 7" vise for about $25 +SH. I have this vise... here it is:
formatting link
like it's back ordered at the moment. It works and having any vise will make your life so much easier. Add hardwood jaw liners
A #5 Jack Plane and a #7 Jointer plane, then replace #4 and your block plane with something better. Again I'd suggest buying from Walt in the link above. I'd go for a low-angle block myself.
Marking guage(s). I have the cheaper Japanese-style mortise/marking gauge from Lee-Valley and am happy with it. It works well as a mortise guage and a regular marking gauge. They also have some very inexspensive western-style guagues as well.
Speed square, combo square and tape measure.
Work Mate. Makes a good sawhorse, can be used as a clamp for glue ups and for some tasks is better than a bench vise and it folds up and goes away when you don't need it. Or if you're like me - it doesn't take up much space and is easy to walk around when not needed :-)
Card Scapers and required maintence gadgets.
More and better chisels. I don't have much specfic to add to that, I still need to upgrade mine. Right now I'm still using a set of Sears house-brand paring chisels (1/2" - 1") and a 1/4" Craftsman mortise chisel, bought before I had a clue what I was doing.
I also have the Veritas right angle cutting guide and companion saw, to help with cutting finger joints for boxes. Not a requiment at all, but handy.
-----------
Here are some other good neander resources I've found online:
formatting link
(check out the handtools forums)
formatting link
about everything a neander needs to know)
Actually that's about it. those two plus this group have been my biggest sources of information recently.
As for whether or not it's worth it to start woodworking with limited time,space and money? You bet it is!
Here's some of the stuff I've made in my small, spare bedroom shop over the past year, with a very limited set of handtools:
formatting link
's not all the greatest but everything has come out useable and I've had a lot fun making them all.
Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring and friends think its, well, boring).
I should have been more specific about what I'd like to do. First, I'd like to mill a hardwood board four square. I know, it's a modest ambition, but I still ain't done it yet. After that, I'd like to make a decent mortise and tenon joint or two. Following that, a passable dovetail joint. After all that, I'd like to try something ambitious like a chair. We have a 1928 bungelow-style house, and Arts & Crafts furniture would be the cat's meow. At least that's what I told SWMBO.
I am grateful for all your insights, but one person has provided me exceptional inspiration. Josh/SpaceCowboy, the beer fridge is brilliant. Prior to woodworking I did a lot of homebrewing. My homebrew fridge is actually in the workroom (another reason not to use power tools...). Brilliant.
Some/most of the other suggestions are OK, however, the heart of a good neander is their chisels and planes. Sell the Buck Bros. They are simply trash. You can sharpen them till you are blue in the face and the edge will hold for a very short time. Invest in a quality set. Used/eBay yard sales whatever. Also, scrapers and good techniques will produce pleasing results. Upgrade the plane irons and saws as budget permits.
Still, I have cut my fingers open on my chisels. Too easy.
I am "the same" and "doing the same" as a hobby.
Tune it up. it's all over the 'net.
Now buy an old-but-decent Stanley No. 6 on eBay, I just bought one for $21 there (+S/H). It makes a fine jointer for small work. Also try to find a 3/4" or 1" shoulder plane for as cheap as possible. Stanley 78 with blade, fence, nicker, and depth stop. Eventually.
Is it a low angle block plane? New about $40 online somewhere, like here:
formatting link
tuned, it's good enough.
Modern and plastic handled? Poor steel. Try these Buck Bros., excellent steel with leather capped hickory handles, these 'bench chisels' are a *great deal*:
formatting link
I have some of these, and they take a mean scary sharp edge too. On glass and paper, I finish with 1200 grit from Harbour Freight, $5.99 for 20 sheets. The paring chisels are also important to have, I bought the crank necked Bucks.
Another very effect way is with this Arkansas soft stone, best deal online anywhere, eBay search engine: 7201427792 >jpfarm is a trustworthy seller in my experience. See everything he's got.
After that, a leather strop of your own cutting (got a saddlery in town?), Use cheap blue/gray emery cake on one half of the smooth top (hardware store), and green Lee Valley 0.5 micron on the other. Mr. Lee suggests using tallow in the leather, so I went to the market and got a bag of free beef fat, chopped it up fine and boiled it to render over low heat with a lid for about 45 minutes (lots of water), refrigerated, and took it off the top. Unsalted butter is essentially the same, but too expensive. You can do as good as can possibly be done with these two items. But I would still use the
1200 on glass for finalizing the back flattening, which also does further deburring and mirroring.
Awesome! Got a mitre box? Bench hook? See 'Planing notes about the shooting board:
formatting link
and everything else.
You will also want to sharpen them when needed, you can make an adapter made of Fir for the blades of saws that will fit into your bench's front vise. You will need small triangular taper files with wooden handles, the size of the file relates to points per inch. Instructions are all over the 'net.
If needed, go to a pool supply store and buy 'coping' to use as teeth protectors. This is used for above ground pools to clip the lining to the top edge. Super cheap, I paid $0.50 each for 24" pieces, but try to find 48" so you can cut to size.
Depending on how the teeth are filed, a saw is either crosscut or rip, this is specific for dovetail saws (rip), tennon saws (both) and both are used for other small work. The more PPI, crosscut, the less PPI, rip. Same goes for large hand saws, 8- 12 is crosscut, 5 - 7, rip. The filling shapes of the teeth are different for both. What... you knew that? All over the 'net.
Got bench dogs? If not, you can make them:
formatting link
about vises? If not, you can make a 'leg vise' with this bench screw:
formatting link
and
formatting link
end vise is also necassary (large):
formatting link
I used to work at a public library so I did some reading: Lee's
You can get free wood by dumpster diving at cabinet making shops. Seriously! They throw out nice pieces, good for small projects.
If you've gone and built a bench then you already have your "starter kit". You can augment it by judicious shopping on eBay and through neighborhood garage sales.
Get some glass and wet-dry sandpaper and learn to sharpen. It's much cheaper than waterstones and you won't be out big bucks if you drop it on the floor by accident some day. Sharp tools are essential to success, especially to a neander-in-training.
You will reduce the sweat output on the next project by getting a decent set of bench chisels (ranging from 1/4" to 1") and by tuning and sharpening those planes. Likewise some files and rasps will serve you well for shaping and contouring.
Get some garnet sandpaper in various grits and learn to put a nice finish on your next pieces. (Sandpaper is a tool too.)
Pick up the above (piecemeal) as your next few projects require (including shellac, stain, varnish, etc.)
With just chisels and your saws and planes you could build SWMBO a pine or cedar blanket chest. If she likes it maybe she'll make a contribution to your tool fund on your next birthday. (She will be more likely to like the piece if you practice your dovetailing on your shop furniture or personal toolbox first).
Consider also making some things for the kids. They won't toddle for long. Kid size table, chairs, playthings, coat racks, toyboxes, etc. are good skill builders and the kids will doubtless give your joinery a good strength test.
By then it should be obvious to you which tools you'll need for your next project and whether to buy them or make them yourself. Most everything a neander wants he can make -- except time.
J.
Mighty Qu> I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
Actually, I've had one of those for about a year or so. I find I reach for it much more frequently than one of my Western type saws. Cuts well, just remember not to force it on the forward stroke. My B-I-L was helping me install a door over Christmas, and I now have a blade kinked in two places. But a replacement blade is something like $17 at the local Sears.
I recently discovered that one of my co-workers is into woodworking too, so we've had a chance to 'talk shop' as it were a few times recently. Pity he's a total normite though, didn't even know what a hand plane was till I showed him a picture :(
Thanks! It's kind of a proto-project since it was put together with a jigsaw, a powerdrill and a few wrenches (all hand-me-downs from my dad) it wasn't until about a year after that was built that I really picked up WWing as a hobby. Since those pictures were taken I've sanded it and put a lite coat of mineral oil and a layer of paste wax on it, to pretty it up a bit. I'm very pleased with it on a functional level but at some point I'd like to redo it now that I more or less know what I'm doing and make something a little prettier. I still brew but not as often as I used to, beer consumption is down to the point where I only brew about four to six times a year now. Five gallons of beer lasts a lot longer now than it did when I was still in college... :-)
There are a lot of good responses so far. Cheap tools? Forget eBay for now. Think local used. Cost of shipping can be high, and the basic starter tools should be fairly easy to find locally. If you can't find it, try eBay last. It will be there, and there are some bargains, unless it is something I want/need....plus shipping/handling.
Make some time every month to hit a local old junk/antiques flea market or two (avoid the ones full of "new stuff"). Even SWMBO can enjoy something like this. Near Houston we have route 105 which has about 12 miles of various flea markets and yard sales, many of which can be the answer to a dumpster divers dreams. I've picked up chisels, hammer heads, screwdrivers, etc for as little as 10 cents, yep, a dime, each. Planes, saws, squares, etc. cost more, but you can still sometimes find an old Stanley block plane for a couple of bucks. Look for the dirty stuff, especially if it is in piles. Claw through everything. Haggle over the prices. The dirt cleans up easily, and so does almost all of the rust. Price goes up by a factor of 10 if it has been washed for sale.
I outfitted a small one-man blacksmith shop this way, and never paid more than $10 for any one item, other than a set of hot/cold hardies and my big leg vise. I think I paid $35 for that. I got the only straight pein hammer I've ever seen for a buck years ago. I'm gonna be buried with that hammer.
Let your friends and family know what you're looking for. Offer to clean out old sheds and garages for what you can keep. Be amazed what Aunt Nellie has in the back shed. Might be something you could really use, then again, you might just be amazed at what a wild woman she must have been in her younger years (DAMHIKT).
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.