I was at Woodcraft yesterday and looked at the MFT again. It really does look like particle board (yes, I know it's MDF). I don't like the wobble at all. I wouldn't pay what they want for it. I certainly don't need the mobility and that's all it's good for.
My question is holes or no holes. Barring a fire, comet strike, or great flood, a _solid_ workbench will never have to be replaced. Mine didn't cost much more than a MFT replacement top. It'll take a lot more weight than a pile of thinwall conduit, too. Bit heavier, though.
I'm surprised you don't have a zero clearance insert.
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I've never broken a blow-mold case either. That doesn't mean that they don't suck.
If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use. The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.
Soooo I have both so to speak. MY MFT has the dog holes buy my Paulk style work bench, 40 x 96 when set up has no holes. IIRC Ron Paulk puts holes in his benches but they are only 1/2" thick. So IMHO you would only want to use a hold down style clamp.
I really like the dog holes in the MFT. I cut a lot of mortises with my Domino.. I can more easily and quickly clamp a board with the Festool Clamping element and 2 dogs on the opposite side of the board than using a hold down clamp. This would be for mortising the ends of the stock. With the clamping element you push a lever to lock and unlock the board. With a hold down you have to reposition the clamp for every board.
And with the clamping elements/dogs you can hold and sand normal size stock by clamping on the edges vs a hold down on top.
The MFT style top is something you grow into. You learn more ways to use it for holding your work. And yes the MFT table does wobble a bit but I only notice that if I try to wobble it. Under actual use I do not notice the wobble at all. After all what you are doing is moving a tool, with that in mind the table moving a little is not noticeable, at least to me. The MFT is plenty sturdy, it just wobbles a bit. It is not a hindrance.
I have thought about it but the bottom side of the cut is like the top, no tear out. I only have tear out at the back fence side of the cut.
I have, the hinge wore out, the thin bendable style hinge.
Besides having to pay for that case with every power tool purchase, what exactly do you not like about them?
This style bed, horizontal vs. vertical is also available in a queen IIRC. The horizontal have a larger foot print and waste more wall space usable wall space. That is, for the bed with out the fold out desk, more so with the desk.
This link takes you to the company that made my kit. They have a boat load of pictures of both vertical and horizontal beds.
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I have seen similar fold out desks on the vertical versions too. The link above shows them.
My SIL found that bed/desk on Craigslist. Turned a small office into a office/guestroom.
A vertical bed wouldn't fit in the room shown. In the lower right corner of the second image you can see the left half of a suitcase and a duffel-type bag to the left of that. The suitcase is up against the wall opposite the bed, so you should be able to get a feel for how narrow the room is.
If I recall correctly, the unit actually came with 2 side towers, but the room was only big enough for one.
While a horizontal bed does use more wall space, that's not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is only having one open side. With 2 people sharing the bed, the person on the inside has to enter/exit the bed from the end if there is a person on the outside. Crawling into bed from the end isn't so bad when compared to crawling out. Try that sometime. Make believe you can't leave the bed on either side. It truly sucks.
Oh, yeah...the bed is pretty high off the floor. I used a step stool to make getting in and out easier.
OH, Cool, I thought this was the internet picture of what she bought vs. in her home.
Tall? :~)
This is ours that I build 11 years ago. The mattress top is 35" high. My wife uses a stool.
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If you zoom in on the bottom right side you will notice a double deck of drawers, 6 on this side, 6 on the opposite side, and 6 hidden in the middle between the left and right side drawers, yes 18 drawers.
This was GREAT Until we bought Termurpedic king mattresses with the articulating lifts for the head and feet. Guess how tall that would have been! LOL. We moved the bottom with the drawers out for about 2 years. Last Spring I shortened the height of the bottom and drawers to a single layer of drawers, 9 drawers now, and placed the articulating bed frame and mattresses back on top. I had to remove the 8 extension feet from the articulating frame so that the height is only 36". ;~)
Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan on puting a vise on either bench.
Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to hold them in the hole.
I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.
The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work. All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have rubber pads and are flat.
IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table. The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.
I got it. I hadn't seen the screws on dogs. The way my bench is constructed I think it would be a PITA. Clamps (from the bottom) are going to be a PITA too. How do you us them on your PAULK bench?
Most of these MFT wtyle benches with holes are accurately laid out for using dogs as stops for you track saw track. IMHO that is the most obvious reason for snug fit dogs. Other wise a little play has never been an issue for me.
There is also Armor Tools.
They make a MFT style work bench but it is mounted on wheels. Something to think about, a bench on wheels will move more than a wobbly MFT bench.
BUT the Armor bench is less expensive and has a pretty good clamp system too. I got one of the horizontal clamps and it works well on the MFT too.
Check out their video
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So the clamps are on top, the dog fits the hole and the retainer bolt screws into the bottom of the dog. BUT you do not have to screw them down. I mostly use mine just like any dog, drop it in.
I do not use them on my Paulk bench. My Paulk bench has no holes and dogs would not work well in 1/2" material anyway so just hold down clamps would work best.
Like I said, my benches are 30" doors on Kreg frames and castors. They don't wobble at all. If all four casters are locked, it's not going anywhere.
The butcher block top is nice. It's reasonable, too, but small.
I have two other 30" x 72" benches (in storage right now) with 1-3/4' butcher block tops. Intend to put vises on them but the others were intended to be for cutting and assembly. Right now they're holding junk off the floor.
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