More Plunge Saws

[asmurff]

In my years in the Air Force I spent 10 of them in Europe (from mid 70s to mid 90s) and hand tools are the norm. In the late 70s my German landlord was a carpenter, everything from construction to cabinets. The only power tool I ever saw him use was a drill and I know he had no stationary or bench top tools, his work shop was smaller than a one car garage. Most tradesman there and in Spain used hand held tools, some powered some not, rarely did I see any stationary tools unless you were in a manufacturing facility. I'm not sure resistance to change is a factor, I think you'd find more trades or craftsman doing things the old way in most of Europe than you would here. Also they do apprentice longer, which gives the teacher more time to indoctrinate the newbie.

One of the main things you see in Europe though are designs to get the most out of any given space and I'm sure it applies to their tools as well as furniture and cars.

[nailshooter41]

make a few models.

They seem to be pretty well reviewed in different spots, but I don't seem to be able to find anyone that actually uses one. This is a question of curiosity, I am not running out to buy one today.

***************

OK,. just off the phone with Amazon.com's live information line. Sombitch. After a lot of hemming and hawing, they confirmed that the drills are made in China. He went on further to say that most of the Fein products were these days, except the Multimaster.

I would never have suspected.

I guess that's why you can buy 2 of the Fein brand cordless drill (literally) for the price of a similar Festool drill.

If I were going to buy a Chinese tool I would go to HD and get a Ridgid (for $60 less) so I could get their warranty. I have had good luck with the Taiwanese tools, not so much so with the Chinese stuff. So for me, if I am buying a Chinese drill, I want the best warranty possible.

If I had shelled out the dough for the Fein, even if the drill was top flight, I would have really been pissed to think I had bought another Chinese tool. I could do that anywhere.

Robert

[Hoosierpopi]

I thought the writer offered a more interesting question for this blog "Is this saw strictly for plywood and sheet goods? Or, can you see using this set-up for all your circular-saw needs. "

Awfully expensive for the occaisonal plywood cut, no?

[nailshooter41]

I thought about that, and realized that the Authorized dealer didn't have any real reason to lie. Really, who would proclaim their tools are proudly made in China?

No one in town stocks any Fein product except Woodcraft, and I knew better than to call them. They only stock the Multimaster in limited quantities with all accessories being special order.

See above for my phone call to Amazon. Indeed, made in China.

Robert

[Leon]

I looked at their site and only found corded although I did not dig deep.

Hummm and yet their tools are still pretty highly priced. Food for thought.

Absolutely and IMHO the Festool may be $100 or so over priced. Oddly the Festool drills come with really low amp hour rated batteries and nove are lithium yet. IIRC 1.2 amp is common. I have never actually tried one of their drills and that may be what I would have to do to understand the pricing but watching the rep demo the drill I saw no immediate bebefit over what I am using.

Absolutely

Yeah you could do better for less money.

[Leon]

I think perhaps a bargain for the person that does handy man repairs and or a wood worker just starting out. Certainly cheaper than a decent TS and probably produces better results than a similarly priced TS on sheet goods. For the framer, I don't think so. For the reasons I previously mentioned add the question, how many framers are going to use 2 hands to plunge the saw to cut a 2x when on a job site? IMHO this saw is targeting the cabinet builder and coupled with the work table that Festool sells the combination will do just about anything except cut dado's.

[Chris Friesen]

The C12 at least is available with 1.3, 2.4, or 3.0 Ah batteries.

Some other nice touches...

It uses an electronically controlled 3-phase motor. From people that have used them, this gives way more torque at low speeds, with no brushes to change.

The power to the motor doesn't actually flow through the forward/reverse switch, unlike most regular drills. In fact the forward/reverse lever just moves a magnet that gets detected by a solid state sensor.

The drill monitors the battery and will shut down when the battery gets too low to prevent battery damage.

When using torque control the clutch will slip only up to half a revolution and then shut down automatically.

Plus all those funky attachements..

I'm trained as an engineer and this drill appeals to my sense of elegance. I'd love to get one, but I don't have $400 to drop on a cordless drill no matter how good it is.

Chris

[Chris Friesen]

They should put a depth stop on the plunge mechanism...then it could do dados/grooves as well!

Chris

[Leon]

Well thank you Chris for pointing out those features! CRAP! Now I will more seriously consider this drill when the time comes.

[Leon]

The Festool and IIRC The DeWalt do have depth stops but I do not know if you could stack dado blades on the these saws. This is what keeps the saw from cutting "through" the table tops on those nice benches that they sell. Believe it or not I do have a dado set for a hand held circle saw that works pretty well, all things considered.

[nailshooter41]

Well, to help stoke this fire a little while I am doing my paperwork, check this out to see if this can help you decide how much money you need to put aside:

should know though, that a couple of years ago there was (yet another "shootout") a fairly comprehensive test in one of the ww mags and the Festool was no more than middle of the pack. The winner was the Bosch "Brute" line with its heavy case and the amount of screws driven. It only slightly edged out the newer line of Ridgid that came out with the 15 minute recharge batteries and lifetime case warranty.

Robert

[charlieb]

O(nce again - late to a thread

Couple of things to note

1. The Euro equivalent of OSHA does not permit "blind cuts" - in table saws - so no dado blades - euro table saws won't hold them. Routers do the job safer

1. The Euro plunge saws, probably developed by Festool, isn't designed nor intended to be used by a stick frame carpenter. It is intended for working with sheet goods. Festool made it a part of a portable, integrated, woodworking system which can be used in a small shop - AND - on site.

The Festool plunge saw will cut at a desired line -whether the blade is at 90s or 45 degrees. It has built in "zero clearance" which minimizes or eliminates tear out where the saw teeth come up out of the sheet goods. It has pretty precise depth of cut setting that's reproducable and easily seen reference lines for starting and stopping a cut.

One of the major woodworking tools and techniques for Euros came about at the end of WW II. Europe was pretty torn up

- manufacturing devastated, the supply of solid wood quite limited and a huge demand for basic household furniture

- mainly cabinets to put things in. So a bright fellow came up with "manufactured wood products" which used the readily available wood debris. Skilled woodworkers were in very short supply - war not being particularly good for males between 16 and 70. So a bright German came up with a system of cabinet making that could use task specific tools and jigs (that didn't require the large capital investment that mass production required) to make up for the lack of skilled craftsmen.

We, in the U.S. have been playing with woodworking tools and machines that, for the most part, are basically the same as they were 50 plus years ago - machine green being replaced by Platinum White, and brand colors - for plastic parts. And while we were getting Tried And True - the Europeans have been innovating. The fact that riving knives are finally showing up on tables saw, and riving knives will start showing up on these plunge saws, seem to indicate that US "manufacturers" (actually distributors of foreign made products) that are FINALLY getting the message

- catch up or watch your market share disappear.

Tired - sleep required. End of message

charlie b

- the 32 mm System

[BDBConstruction]

Great post

Mark