The content of this group is not of the quality it was 5 years ago.
Sawmill Creek has the content that used to be posted here.
OTOH, the ISP's have cut back on their services.
I only stop by occasionally because of the political vitriol manifest by
members of the group. Five years ago, you wouldn't know who was a liberal or
who was a conservative.
You guys probably never saw one of CONAN's hand made mesquite boxes with
turquoise inlay. I don't know what happened to him. I sure liked his
Personally, can't stand the web format ... just color me too Fidoized.
That, in a nutshell, is the saddest part of the Wrec today ... then
again, the country itself is torn into two camps by artificial political
agendas, so the microcosm remains a reflection of the macrocosm in this
Another damn shame ... The Librarian is not the only one missed in that
regard. At one point there was ample evidence in the wrec, and its
companion, ABPW, to back up the veracity of words/opinions/advice, today
evidence of sageness/competence is based mostly on the principle, and
skill, of wielding WikiDAGS, instead of tools.
Times do change ...
I wasn't here 5 years ago, but I'll take both of your words for it. I
agree with Swing, tho. I tried Sawmill, and saw plenty of content, but
web format doesn't work for me. I'm also on dialup and clicking from one
thread to another is just annoying.
I've filtered a lot of OT stuff, and more than a few posters, as have
many others here - just to reduce the S/N ratio.
We don't have to allow that to destroy our community. This is, after all, a
woodworking group; alt.talk.politics is over that way --------------------->.
I'd like to propose that we all agree not to participate in political
threads in this group, regardless of who started them; as one of the guilty
parties in that regard, I'll go first, for thirty days. Longer, if I'm not
Tim? Upscale? J. Clarke? Robatoy? Mark&Juanita? Lew? You guys in?
I sure hope not! I prefer to censor my reading rather than have others
sensor their posting. I used to skip most of JOATS posts as non
interesting (to me), which is why I almost missed this thread. I also
skip all the "what is it" posts. There are a people I skip as non
interesting, but none are those you list. When I feel like reading
political stuff, I would rather read stuff posted by people I have a
little in common with, such as wood workers. If I don't feel like
reading political stuff, I skip political posts. Its no big deal...
When Fidonet was around, it was moderated, and people would get off into
all sorts of tangents. Often, the tangents would get "out of hand" and
the moderators would try to stop it. The excuse was the amount of
bandwidth, which everyone had to pay for via phone lines, and modems
were slow, some at 1200 and 2400 baud.
My thoughts then was the REASON some off topic threads are so popular,
is people enjoy them. No joy, no participation. Then would come the
bandwidth excuses. People just LOVE to censor each other. I say read,
and post what interests you. Skip, and certainly don't participate in
stuff you don't enjoy. Pretty damned simple, no?
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It is indeed. Your opinion lines up almost exactly with mine as I
have expressed it here before.
Since it is a public format, any idiot can express themselves any way
they want. So if they have no respect for the fact it should be
primarily woodworking, that really is their lack of judgment.
But it is easy to see that by far and away the most widely read,
widely responded to posts here are by political zealots, bar room
experts that can't get enough of their own opinions. I can only
imagine the *whoosh* of a thrill they get at thinking their political
opinions are going out
over the airwaves in print, and that someone is actually reading them.
After all, their wives don't listen anymore, their kids are sick of
the ranting, and in their eyes most people don't have the clarity of
vision they do on any given political subject. It is VERY easy to see
the frustration of many here that don't have an outlet for their
personally valuable opinion or their mean streak.
The whole subject of politics has been broached here many times. But,
I think the fact needs to be addressed that the screaming, red faced
antics of the political fanatics are actually the majority of the
respondents. Even a question about glue, a machine, or anything else
regarding woodworking will be politicized in just a post or two.
So using the self filtering method, you find there isn't much to read
here anymore. That isn't all bad.
When this place was hoppin', you had a lot to read sometimes, and a
lot to respond to if you felt someone asked a question on your field
of expertise or experience. It was fun to compare notes.
Now with it having become a political group, you can catch up on just
about everything in a visit every week to ten days.
So in a way, it is a win/win.
It is easy to forget this venue and all the static. This frees up a
little more time that I was spending here, and who can't use a few
more minutes to do something every day? And who can forget all the
time it takes to type out a measured response to someone that really
needs help? Now *that* can really involve some time. Now that is all
back in your pocket.
And the political psychos that snipe, justify, scream their opinions,
call each other names and kick the crap out of each other (at least
from their own keyboard point of view) on a regular basis can continue
on with wild abandon. Since the never, ever, prove anything to one
another, they are fertile ground for each other, regularly crapping on
each other's opinions to start the cycle over again.
Each side thinks they are the clever one, and they never seem to tire
of their expulsions.
The only thing I see as a downside to the whole politicizing of this
newsgroup is that one of the original goals of building a usable,
searchable knowledge base on woodworking and its related aspects has
It is >>>profoundly<<< obvious that the folks here that incessantly
scream their politics the loudest have offered little, if anything at
all on the subject of woodworking. A quick, cursory search will
reveal this to be true WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
So it appears the natural flow of things here is the drift to pure
politics. Being public, you can't control the direction, no matter
who you are.
And like you said Jack, the threads wouldn't be popular if they
weren't enjoyed. But I have never understood why the same folks that
bait, tease and curse each other over and over again with exactly the
same results don't form their own blog. Then there would be an
immediacy of response they would no doubt find titillating. After
all, it is always the same guys with the same opinions over and over
What are you, a dick head or something?
You mean like that:-)
Really though, to participate in newsgroups, you must have the old,
thick skin. There is no way anyone is going to get exactly what they
want in a newsgroup unless they themselves are flexible and tolerant of
others behavior. Some people might get pissed off and leave because
every post is not about wood. Why are you talking about granite counter
tops in a group about wood. Who cares what the list of cars joe blow
owned in his lifetime? Why is this guy posting a million messages with
silly links anyone can find in Google? Why are you asking about (name
anything) when you can just look it up in Google, we've discussed (name
anything) here a million times. There is no doubt people leave a
newsgroup because it ain't what they want it to be. Those that think
they are going to change a group to what they want... well, they are in
for big disappointments...
Personally, I like being around people that work with their hands, and
woodwork is my hobby, and has been for many years. Most everyone in
here is also interested in woodwork. If I'm going to get into it about
cars, or socialism, or granite counter tops, I prefer to do it with
woodworkers than say, gynecologists. If I don't feel like reading about
GW, I simply skip the thread...
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What a hoot.
The first response (Skeez) is the only one that addresses the OP's
question. The second one by Doug Miller hijacks the subject and drags everybody
off on one of the usual tangents. So far there are 10
posts (that I can see on verizon) on that tangent.
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