Mike Marlow (in 6504$43ed24fd$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true,
| that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated
| it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else
| before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when
| guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only
| seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of
| posting what you know is something that has been addressed to death?
Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product that
doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Mike Marlow (in 51bcd$43ed3cfd$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
||| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true,
||| that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated
||| it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else
||| before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when
||| guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only
||| seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of
||| posting what you know is something that has been addressed to
|| Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product
|| that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
| Sure, but how does doing a little research one's self and checking
| the archives first defeat that objective?
It doesn't - but Brian's choice of words indicated an awareness of
past discussions (which implies that he'd either lurked or arleady
STFW) and reasonable cluefulness. I've bought three of these darned
conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest part
of my problem).
During a recent project (a sign - there're photos at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/PT_Sign.html ) I finally cleaned all the
spray equipment, packed it away, and did the painting with roller and
brushes. Before I waste any more time with the darned stuff /I/ will
need to learn more than I've pulled off the wreck so far.
An A-Z spray painting (and perhaps HVLP spray painting) for dummies
web page would probably be a big help for a lot of people. Know of any
good online resources?
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Brian - here's my .02.
I paint a few houses a year, and I use a small Graco dx model. After a
recent price drop, they are now only $300 plus change. This will spray
the thickest latex you can imagine (the highest end stuff is almost
glop), and I spray about 200 gallons a year out of it. I never thin
any of the paint, and I never have had a spot of trouble with it in the
last 4 years. With the setup that comes with it, you can spray
directly from a gallon can, or a five gallon can. Different tips are
available to spray oil based paint, varnish, and other more viscuous
finishes. It is probably the smallest turbine powered airless you can
get, but worth every penny.
That will take care of your latex, oil, and maybe some other finishes.
Tip spray other finishes are about $18, and there are a lot of them.
One thing though... you will only get good mileage out of this machine
if you clean it well every time you use it, and if it goes into storage
use the recommended pump storage fluid.
Now for oil based only. This will make some of the pros cringe...
Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/97mtk
I have one of these guns and I use them to paint metal doors after I
install them, as well as metal garage doors, burglar bars, and any
other surface requiring oil based material. The gun is small, easy to
handle, and does a helluva job. It only handles about 7 oz of paint
though, so if you were going to paint your car you would have no end of
problems with this as the capacity is so small. The best part is you
can run it off a small compressor (which I take to the site anyway) as
the air requirements are so small. Since I run the gun at about 45 -
50 psi, I always have constant pressure as the compressor kicks on at
about 80 pounds so I never notice a drop.
Here's a good tip on something I found by accident. I mix my paint in
a sports bottle (Goodwill, .35 ea.) that has gradients on the side.
That way I can mix how much I need accurately, and then have a
resealable bottle for the balance of he paint or when I need a refill.
The thinned paint stays in perfect condition for several days in the
current lot of bottles I am buying, and for convenience sake I can mix
bigger batches of paint.
One of my amigos showed me the above referenced gun and he told me he
uses it for furniture finishing and refinishing. He bought it on a
lark because of price, and now he keeps two or three around that are
dedicated to certain finishes. He shoots lacquer and poly out of it
with no problems. He has even painted a fender or two, but no complete
cars. It has a good volume control and pattern control (round to fan
only) and seems pretty well made. I can't tell you how surprised I was
when I started using this gun. I couldn't recommend it enough as a
great gun to experiment with to learn how to spray different oil or
solvent based finishes. Likewise how to cut, retard, and accelerate
the finishes you are interested in using.. Sometimes in my mind I
think everything in HF is crap...
But remember, when you make air, you make water. You MUST have a drier
on your machine before it gets to the gun, and you MUST have a good
gauge and regulator to make sure you have quality air. However, this
will be the case on >any< gun you run from a compressor. And your
compressor question will be answered by the gun you choose. Some are
real air hogs, and some are just piglets. Find out which gun you want
first and use that as your jumping off point on compressors. Any
compressor you buy to run a spray gun will almost definitely run a
large variety of air powered sanders, nailers, etc.
I haven't seen a setup that does both latex and oil finishes really
well. I am sure that there are those here that know of such an animal,
but they all seem to have their drawbacks, even if it just the amount
of pain you go through to clean the machine/guns.
Cringe???? Hell, this is a knock off of a Binks jam and trim gun. Terrific
gun. I have the original Binks and I use it a lot. So much easier than
mixing up enough for a big gun and so much easier to dip and dive around
small areas. The patents on these classic guns has long ago expired and
there's a ton of perfectly good knock offs out there. They work great and
in some cases the parts are actually interchangeable with the original gun
they are copying.
It would be too small for a complete. It's really not good for a fender,
but could be forced into cooperation. It doesn't deliver the right amount
of paint for a complete and like you've said, you'll be spending more time
filling it than shooting it. But... the big brother to this gun is the
knock off of the Binks model 7. It'll do the job. Really a better primer
gun because the model 7 thows some paint, but for just a single stage paint,
it would work. The model 7 knock off might even be a good recommendation
for you to consider for the bigger projects like garage doors. I think you
might find it easier to get nicer finishes with it than the trim gun.
Ohhhhhh..... just wait until you shoot your first epoxy primer through that
trim gun. Then you'll know the real meaning of "pain to clean".
... and I don't want to become a point of contention on this matter, so I'll
not-so-gracefully bow out (you've never seen me bow...)
Can I offer some assistance?
I looked at the link again, but the pics are from too great a distance and I
can't see any detail in the painting to see what's wrong. How about a blurb
about the problems you had.
Well, I don't know if you'd call it an A-Z, but I've posted some pretty
detailed ramblings about proper spray technique. HVLP and conventional
painting don't really offer a difference in style if you view you objective
from the stand point of layering on the material. Spray speed changes some,
but the things that you watch for on the surface of the material being
painted are really the same. The objective is easy to post, but like
everything else, obtaining the objective is a matter of practice. Not to
sound like I'm dismissing anything, but you have to develop a bit of muscle
memory and it only comes from working on some scrap until you get the speed
and distance down right and develop the knack of watching your pattern go
down on the surface. Some typical problems can be explained and corrections
offered - things like orange peel for example, and then after that it's a
practice thing. Quickly enough though you get one of those ah-hah! moments.
Post some more info on your problems getting a good finish and let's see
what we can do.
Mike Marlow (in ae1a4$43edc4a3$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
|| I've bought three of these darned
|| conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
|| satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest
|| part of my problem).
| Can I offer some assistance?
Most definitely (and Thank You!) but, if it's OK with you, I'll take a
rain check until my schedule allows me to spend some time
experimenting - and I'll need to do some archive reading of my own
DeSoto, Iowa USA
If you're inclined, there is a diatribe I posted a while ago - maybe a year
ago (?) that covered a lot of technique stuff. As I recall it really was a
diatribe. Have some strong coffee on hand to ward off the tendency to fall
asleep. If you find it and it's helpful, then great. If you find it and
it's not helpful, then fire away - we'll create a new diatribe. I you don't
find it, fire away anyway. Despite all of my "quirks", I do enjoy being
able to offer something of help, so we can step through it all again.
Actually, I did do a search. And I wasn't too pleased with what I
found. The questions and answers sort of danced around what I asked,
but didn't hit it exactly. Also, I was hoping to get new information.
Like "hey there's this new gun that just came out". Or maybe there's a
new person with something to add that isn't in the archives. And since
it's cheap to post and reply, who cares? If you don't want to rehash
this again, don't respond.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There has been a ton of stuff talked
about and all sorts of points raised and answered - quite directly. But...
not necessarily so, if your questions remain unanswered. I didn't see
anything in your questions that was not addressed several times in the stuff
that's been bantered about here, so I'll just come out and ask... which
questions remain unanswered?
The last part of that statement is what can make a guy say "fXXk you". You
know Brian - it's not too much to suggest that folks do an archive search.
Whether you did one or not is not apparent from your original post - in fact
it appeared to me that you didn't or you didn't bother to look too hard.
Perhaps I was wrong - I'm willing to stand corrected on that single point,
but I really don't accept well the "if you don't want to rehash this again,
don't respond" stuff. What's the matter - did I crap in your personal
playground by suggesting a search? That's what it seems.
Understand something Brian - it's more than just some folks not wanting to
see a particular thread start up or question asked because it somehow
inconveniences them or disturbs them. Some of us have invested *a lot* of
time into detailing answers and pointers and recommendations to these
questions over time. We did it in the name of sharing, in order to help
other folks out. Such is the nature of a group like this. In turn, we get
our questions answered. But the point is the effort has been invested in
answering this stuff and there does exist a good archive of these answers.
Yes - you do get a bit tired of answering the same things over and over
again. Especially when a little effort would reveal a wealth of
information. Everything from compressor selection to gun selection (by
type) to gun experiences (by manufacturer and model), to spray technique, to
problem solving (why do I get orange peel), to repair of spray defects has
been either thrown about here, or really chased in detail. Sure - there's
always room for the question that asks "hey has anything really changed in
this area?", implying perhaps a question as to new guns or something
similar, but that's really an entirely different question. I responded to
the question asked. It is a longstanding expectation of usenet/netnews that
the poster will do a little search when he/she expects that the question is
something that has "been beaten to death".
I responded the way that I did because your post did not ask the questions
you're now suggesting was their intent. You really asked the same stuff
that has been addressed a lot here. A search *would* have directly answered
some/most of your questions - not danced around them. That stuff has indeed
been discussed directly and in some depth here. I guess in the end, I stand
by my original thoughts thought, and (seemingly in conflict with...) should
you have any questions or confusion remaining after reviewing what exists in
the archives, and I can offer any insights or help in specific areas, I
remain willing to do so. Sometimes you just want to see a guy put in the
effort and not take the short cut and ignore all of the effort that others
have put in by just asking what he wants now.
Mike Marlow wrote:
<snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>
Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't
let some net nanny get you down.
Do it my way.
Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
Original topics only. No repeats. Redundant, ad nauseum political
rantings are AOK.
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